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Managing Marketing: The Need For Great Storytelling In Content Marketing

Neal_Moore

Managing Marketing is a podcast hosted by TrinityP3 Founder and Global CEO, Darren Woolley. Each podcast is a conversation with a thought-leader, professional or practitioner of marketing and communications on the issues, insights and opportunities in the marketing management category. Ideal for marketers, advertisers, media and commercial communications professionals.

Neal Moore is the Content Strategy & Storytelling Consultant at Moore’s Lore Media in Singapore and he talks about the role of content in marketing and the lessons that brands and marketers should learn from the professional storytellers in Hollywood. He shares his thoughts on how marketers can better develop and share high quality content to attract and engage customers.

You can listen to the podcast here:

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Transcription:

Darren:

Welcome to Managing Marketing, a weekly podcast where we sit down and talk with industry experts and professionals on marketing, media, and advertising.

And today I’m at the 1880 Club in Singapore where I’m going to be talking with Neal Moore, content strategy and storytelling consultant at Moore’s Lore Media. Welcome, Neal.

Neal:

Thank you for having me, Darren—much appreciated.

Darren:

Well, you’re actually having me to your club; I’m just a visitor.

Neal:

That makes me sound so elitist. It’s basically a fancy co-working space.

Darren:

I like what you’ve done with the name.

Neal:

I can’t believe the URL was free; no one had taken it already.

Darren:

And that’s not LAW but LORE.

Neal:

The grand tradition of storytelling through generations.

Darren:

You have a long history of storytelling and I’m not talking about the lies you used to tell to get out of trouble at school.

Neal:

That’s formative right? That’s where you learn your craft. I’m not discounting that by any means.

Darren:

But where does it start for you that the idea of storytelling could actually be a career?

Neal:

Encapsulating it as storytelling—that wasn’t a word in popular usage until quite recently but I’m glad it is. I’ve had a career that has kind of skittered across different divides; television, advertising, film, digital and all sorts.

When I was 11 I got massively into drama, joined the local drama society, was the lead in the school play and ended up doing a GSCE and A Level and studied acting at university. And there it was storytelling of all sorts, playing parts but also I did voice and public speaking training and things like that where it’s all about how to engage an audience as yourself not just as a performer.

Little did I know at the time how much that would inform and influence the job I do now because I thought I was training to be an actor but it underpins everything, I guess.

Darren:

It’s interesting that you talk about the theatrical, entertaining part of storytelling; a friend of mine, Shawn Callahan, who has a company called Anecdote which is storytelling for business. He talks about small s stories and big S stories.

And he says, ‘storytelling in the Hollywood tradition or literary tradition is big S stories because we largely talk about them as works of fiction designed to entertain, inform. Whereas he thinks there is also a role for small s stories, which is the way human beings have traditionally passed on experiences from one person to the next.

And we tell stories in a way every day when we recount things that have happened to us. They’re not necessarily stories in a 3 act play but nevertheless they’re still stories.

Neal:

Yeah. One of the things that happens in marketing and in other industries is we try and codify and commoditise everything. So, now storytelling is a thing and that’s great and that’s why I’ve got a job and a business. But now you’ve got people going out there and they’re preaching the 3-act structure or the 12-part heroes’ journey as though it’s this brand new discovery and not this ancient Greek thing we’ve known about for 2,000 years.

And they’re touting that as this is the way you tell a story but if you try and do a full 3 act or 12-part hero’s journey in a 6 second buy-in clip or a 2-minute YouTube video, it doesn’t always work that way. And different mediums have different modes of storytelling.

One of the things a lot of brands struggle with when trying to do YouTube videos, for argument’s sake, is that a lot of YouTube or Instagram stories are personality-driven. They’re not really stories; it’s the people. Those people are storytellers but they’re not crafting perfect beginning, middle, end narratives for every video; it’s personality driven.

So, there are different types of storytelling. And one of the best experiences I ever had (about 5 years ago); me and my former business partner, Simon Carney (who is still a great friend of mine), we treated ourselves after 5 years running our business to a trip to the Producer’s Guild conference in LA and the keynote speakers were David Fincher, Francis Ford Coppola, Seth Rogen. It was amazing.

I had this revelation, which is why the hell am I learning storytelling from marketing people when all they’re trying to do is create things that people love as much as what Hollywood people do? I should just skip that and go and learn from the Hollywood people.

And we went there and every producer, director, screenwriter agreed, story is secondary to character. They say you will follow a compelling character—it doesn’t have to be a nice character. Tony Soprano is not a nice character but he is a compelling character.

You’ll follow a compelling character on any journey but if you’re not compelled by them you won’t go anywhere with them. When you start watching something you don’t know the story.

Darren:

I like that term, compelling because it doesn’t ask you to make any moral judgement about the character. They don’t have to be likable, desirable or anything but the person they are has something about them that you just want to know more.

Neal:

Whether that’s in the classic fictional sense a fatal flaw.

Darren:

But isn’t that what makes those characters feel real, relatable?

Neal:

It also gives them a hook. You can apply that outside of fiction. Before he became a big Hollywood writer, Charlie Brooker was a columnist for the Guardian in the UK and he wrote these fabulously acerbic, grim, cynical, nasty columns that were absolutely brilliant and collected into books much like your book (which I’ve got).

One of them’s entitled I can make you hate which I think is brilliant. Now, if you were sitting down trying to work out the perfect crafted personality that’s going to make people listen and pay attention you wouldn’t think of Charlie Brooker’s foul-mouthed acerbic rants.

But he had character, he was compelling, he had a fatal flaw, he had that hook that meant he was readable. The same goes for someone in our sector like Bob Hoffman who delights in winding people up, pissing people off and taking apart the industry. And he’s got the mix of wit and humour and experience that he can put it together in a way that’s compelling without being likable.

Darren:

You’re right; it’s a compelling reason to give your time. That’s one of the things that a lot of people in advertising have forgotten. That there is a quid pro quo here in that if you are creating a piece of content you are giving it to people in return for their attention.

And we live in an economy where attention is becoming more and more valuable because there are so many things competing for people’s attention. That’s what is overlooked, that the advertising world where you would load up content into an environment and just blast it out no longer exists.

Neal:

This is what people are doing. Instead of crafting great content (this is very broad brush) people are crafting 100 pieces of fairly average if not crap content, chucking it out through some sort of engine and finding the one that’s got a 1 or 2% uplift over everyone else because it was a different shade of green and saying that’s the one—let’s throw the rest of the money behind it.

And they take that as a win. It’s not a win. It’s the least bad of all the crap you put out. That worries me.

Darren:

It does when people are putting measures on things that are not looking at the amount they get rejected. What I mean by that is 15 years ago I had a guy phone me and he said ’we do a lot of direct mail to our customers. What’s the benchmark for response rates?’

And I said, ‘there’s not a benchmark. If they’re your customers you would hope they’re all responding because you have a relationship with them’. And he goes, ‘oh, don’t be ridiculous. We used to get 1% but it’s dropped down to 0.9 and we’re concerned about it’.

And I go, ‘I’d be concerned too. I’d be concerned that if I was talking to my customers and 99.1% of them were actively rejecting my initiation of a conversation isn’t that insulting to me? Am I not being told by my own customers to bugger off?’

And he goes, ‘I’d never thought of it’.

Neal:

Bugger off in that medium. Perhaps find me a different way but this brings me to a real paradox about advertising at the moment which is what we’re hearing is that everybody is trying to get insights and understand the customer better whether it’s through stats, data, analytics or 1st party research or whatever.

All I keep hearing about is insights; we want to understand exactly what the customer wants and then they go and use that to make advertising. 650 million people have deployed adblockers around the world. People TiVo shows, they subscribe to Netflix to avoid advertising.

There is a message that is being shouted loud and clear to you and what you’re trying to do is find more or better ways of giving you something they’ve already said they don’t want. And I find that very odd. It seems to go against the grain of everything else that they’re trying to do, which is listen to the customer and give them what they want.

Darren:

What they’re actually rejecting is the concept of the advert. They’re not rejecting content.

Neal:

Absolutely and they’re not rejecting the brand. It’s the package. That guy that was sending out direct mail; maybe that was the problem at that point. They maybe no longer wanted to receive that medium or it went out of fashion or whatever.

Darren:

I know if I have to explain a story I’ve told it badly. It was more the fact that he was trying to optimise such a small response rate.

Neal:

I see what you’re saying.

Darren:

Trying to get that 1% and it’s dropped to 0.9 and I want to optimise that back. He’d completely lost sight that there was a 99%.

Neal:

You know why I didn’t get that story? Because I came to the advertising industry at digital. I wasn’t involved before then. That sounds like a pretty good response rate.

Darren:

This is how I got to him (and I’ll make it digital for you)—you send out an email to 100 or your friends inviting them to your birthday party and 99 of them don’t RSVP and say they can’t make it, they don’t other responding at all. How would you feel? And he goes, ‘oh that would be terrible’.

And I go, ‘that’s what your customers are doing to you’.

Neal:

But that’s happening with a lot of stuff and people are trying to get those tiny incremental gains.

Darren:

It’s such a low base.

Neal:

Is that what innovation is for? I thought it was about making big leaps and doing big brave things.

Darren:

We’ve lost sight of the fact that there are human beings on the other end. One of the great things about storytelling is that you talk to the person’s truth, things that are they engaged with, that they care about.

Neal:

This is one of my pet peeves at the moment—in this search for insights everybody thinks that the consumer is hiding something from them and there’s an insight to be uncovered and dug out.

The problem is, many of the marketers I speak to, their insights come purely from behind a screen; it’s just more dashboards, analytics and they can’t remember the last time they spoke to a customer.

And I often refer to a lady called Jin Zwicky who worked for OCBC Bank, who was one of the best speakers I’ve ever seen at an event. And she went in there as an experienced design person and she was offered a lovely corner office in the Chulia St branch high up on one of the top floors.

And she rejected it. She sat on the main floor and went to IKEA and filled it with a TV unit, coffee table, sofa, blah, blah, blah. Every single day she would go downstairs to the Chulia St branch, grab someone, bring them upstairs for a coffee and she would make them read a webpage, watch a video, an advert, read a pamphlet and gather 1st party, anecdotal feedback.

And she combined it all and used it to take on the lawyers at OCBC who were insisting they use language that is not necessary. And her results were extraordinary. It was a revelation to me that this woman had decided to use her office to talk to people—I’ve been looking at this all week, we’ve got to get back to talking to customers. They’re more than just data points on a screen.

Darren:

So back to your story about going to see the Hollywood producers of great content; did they give any great insights into how they land on a story? Is it random? You’ve just said marketers do all this research looking for insights but does Hollywood actually do research?

Do they look for insights or do they just randomly come up with ideas?

Neal:

Does an influencer with 5 million followers? No, they don’t. The studios, before they back a project to the tune of 30 or 40 million dollars, they of course do their due diligence. Is there a market for this? Can we reach them and are we going to get good distribution?

But when an idea comes to someone there are a multitude of factors. One is we do forget in this age when anyone with an iPhone can make a movie, you’re crediting the tool a lot more than the person holding the tool. All of these people have an immense talent. They’ve built reputations that basically means they can get into a room, pitch an idea pretty strongly.

Before it’s backed the studios do their due diligence but the person’s reputation is a large reason why people turn up at the cinema. But here’s the thing. The best story I heard at the event was from Seth Rogen.

He said, ‘I’m here supposedly to tell you how to produce a movie. That’s not what I’m going to do. Put your hands up if you saw the Green Hornet (the huge failure)’. Loads of people put their hands up. ‘Keep your hands up if you thought it was shit’. And most people left their hands up. ‘I’m going to talk to you about how not to make a movie.’

And the interesting thing was that’s the only movie he has made for the 100s of millions of dollars as opposed to the 10s of millions of dollars. He said the problem is you get to a point where it’s costing so much money that the people funding it are Wall St bankers who take a private jet to the set for a weekend and demand that their girlfriend or boyfriend gets a walk-on part.

The point is it’s not a money issue; that’s not the thing that makes or breaks. It’s talent, reputation, instinct. There a lot of these projects that get turned down. Martin Scorsese doesn’t get everything he wants made.

Darren:

It can take up to 10 years for them to get a project through.

Neal:

Terrence Malick’s last one took 18 years. So, they don’t get everything they want but there are talented individuals who implicitly understand a story. You can enhance your awareness and ability to identify good stories but how you tell them is the other part of it.

The way I illustrate that is if the story alone was enough Pirates of the Caribbean wouldn’t cost $200 million; you’d just have Johnny Depp read it to you. It’s the how you tell it.

Darren:

Mind you, on that basis Stephen Fry has made a very good career narrating books hasn’t he?

Neal:

He has indeed. And as someone who’s been a voiceover artist for 15 years I wouldn’t mind that gig myself.

Darren:

I get the point though.

Neal:

Let me bring that into the corporate marketing sphere. I was at a networking event at BQ Bar on Boat Quay in Singapore and I met the CTO of a now defunct large tech company and he came up to me and said ‘you do stories and stuff? Tell me if this is any good.’

‘When the Fukushima disaster happened, the internet cables that come up onto the beach were quite literally torn in two. So, we couldn’t get any coverage in the area. It made the rescue mission very difficult. We sent frogmen who dived under the water and gaffered it to get some kind of signal through so that we could see those phones flashing and find people under the rubble’.

And I’m like, ‘that’s an incredible story’. He said, ‘how would you tell it?’ ‘We’d get some archive footage from CNN, speak to the frogmen, find survivors, do a before and after—it would be amazing’.

And he said, ‘or what I thought was interview our CEO about it.’ I’ve got people who don’t have stories. You’re sitting on a gold one and you want to kill it in the telling because you want your CEO to sit there and ‘as a leading tech provider we go above and beyond…’. Give it a rest. So, how you tell it is important as well.

Darren:

That’s the really important thing because especially in marketing and advertising there’s this constant downwards pressure on budgets that people are cutting corners. But there’s a saying in advertising that if it’s a great idea then all extra production will do is polish it; it won’t actually make it better.

Neal:

But a great idea is not just the core. A great idea might be to shoot it in a particular way (I’m talking about video here). To write it in a particular way or get a particular person to write it. A film is a good example because a film is not one idea. It’s 100s of people with lots of ideas that clump together to make this film.

The costume designer, script writer, the lighting guy all have amazing ideas and they put them all together and that’s how you get an incredible outcome. The same thing happens in a band. If you’ve ever listened to the Beatles’ Anthology. These songs didn’t pop out of their heads fully formed. They spent hours and hours honing them and brought in external musicians and George Martin pressed them.

It took a lot of ideas and a lot of honing to get it right. And I think we sometimes kid ourselves that this narrative that permeates our industry that anyone with an iPhone can make a movie or anyone with a pen can write a novel. Actually, no, there are some really talented people out there that if you bring them it will add huge value to your project, some unique insight.

No, it’s not a data point on Google. You can look at their reputation, their reach or awards or whatever data points you need to justify it. But like you said, good ideas start in the gut and then you add the due diligence.

These Hollywood people with a good reputation have an idea. They take it to the execs like we take it to a client and the exec has to apply some due diligence to it. And it’s that marriage of the two things. But you can’t have the one without the other. Unfortunately, instinct, that messy thing that sits in your belly is important.

Darren:

But how can we translate that insight, that approach from Hollywood to Madison Avenue or wherever advertising lives these days? Is it possible to learn the lessons because we do live in a content-rich world?

We’ve just seen Disney+ has been announced; that’s going to be another constant streaming of content.

Neal:

That’s another $10 a month out of my pocket.

Darren:

Then you’ve got all the other streaming services, so many channels that people can view content that are all completing with each other. But they are also going to be hungry for content. They live and breathe on having something new to quench our insatiable thirst for great storytelling.

Neal:

And those ideas can potentially come from anywhere. I used to work in a very large production company and a lot of what they did was branded series that went on television. The television channels, their audiences are hungry, and there are really interesting partnerships to be done to get unusual stories out there in new and interesting ways.

Darren:

This was the continuation of the soap opera because the soap opera was the radio play that was sponsored by soap companies.

Neal:

Exactly right. One of my favourite new entrants into this whole storytelling/ content marketing thing is Mailchimp. They’re targeting, not the large enterprises who use Oracle, but they’re targeting SMEs, Start-ups and entrepreneurs. For every SME, Start-up and entrepreneur there is a story at the point where they turned their back on the corporate world and they went out and did it alone. They’re mavericks, right?

They’ve identified this as the seed of a million stories and so they’ve started 7 new series and one is about 2nd lives; people in their 50s who after 30 years in the corporate world are going to go it alone and start their own business as a way to inspire that segment.

And they’ve done a wonderful series with Shirley Manson of Garbage, who I adore, interviewing musicians about the song that changed their life, made them give up everything and become a musician. Everything’s built around this idea of the leap you have to take.

They’re making this content to appeal to entrepreneurs, wannabe entrepreneurs and business owners to motivate and inspire them. And the content is fantastic; it’s world class and it’s compelling. And when you’re looking for your new suite of marketing tools to launch your business Mailchimp wants to be top of your mind. And I listen to that stuff.

Darren:

It’s going to inspire you by telling the stories of other people who have done it.

Neal:

I think so and it’s very effective. I listen to the Shirley Manson podcasts—that’s part of my weekly rotational listening and it’s brought to me by MailChimp.

Darren:

So, you think there’s an opportunity for brands to start producing real valuable content that people want to watch and listen to and engage with?

Neal:

They are. But when you said how do you bring that Hollywood feel to things. The biggest issue is process, the way that marketing is commissioned, produced and put out to the world—that’s the problem. This is very pronounced in Singapore where we have this real vendor/ client slightly combative relationship, which obviously you’ll know way better than me.

But I think content and the way people create it have become very commoditised and ideas are allegedly free. I put out a barely written brief and expect your best idea back and without any knowledge of my business or customers if you don’t immediately and implicitly understand exactly what I had in my head then you’re useless at your job.

I am thankfully now in my little one man consultancy that I run. I’m working with a very different customer from the MMCs I used to work with. I’m working with founders and business owners—very large businesses but still founder-led. The relationship with the client is much less vendor/client and more consultant/ partner—come sit with me, talk me through the process, what’s the best way to do this?

And I’m having conversations that are less about how much and how quick and more about who and what idea and how should we approach it. I think that’s wonderful and we want to see more of that.

Darren:

But when you’re telling the stories about Hollywood’s approach; one of the reasons they have for the Johnny Depp’s and the Tom Cruise’s and the famous directors like Michael Bay, is because of their reputations the investors are going to be less likely to stand there and tell them how to do their job.

And yet in advertising it’s almost like we have gone the other way. We don’t have the big names in the industry. We may have them within the industry. We have creative awards like Cannes that people win but it only really gets celebrated by the agencies themselves.

The people that win at Cannes don’t become big names in business; they become big names in advertising.

Neal:

Not like they used to. We’re in danger of moving into nostalgic territory and talking about people who made up the initials of all our favourite famous agencies. But you’re right. Does the client wield too much power?

I think the way Hollywood looks at it is we invest in that talent to produce something special. Clients don’t think of it as an investment in talent; they think of it as purchasing a commodity. They want to buy content off the shelf as though it’s a product.

Darren:

I don’t think they’re buying it off the shelf. They think ‘this is what I need. I need my CEO to tell the story of the cables at Fukushima because that’s what I need. He hasn’t even got to the point of thinking how could we do it even better.

They’ve done start, middle and end so now we’ve just got to find someone who can do it. And therefore I’ll get it at the lowest possible price.

Neal:

His question to me (who has a background in writing, journalism, filmmaking) then becomes how much is a camera? ‘I wouldn’t know because I can’t shoot. I’m a writer, producer and director’. ‘I just need a camera’. So, you are right.

He’d taken something that could have been great, reduced it down to how quickly and cheaply can you get a camera in the room. But what was his motivation? Possibly his motivation was ‘I need to get face time with my CEO’ and it had nothing to do with the audience and the impact it had in a broader way. I don’t know that but you’ve got me thinking that.

Darren:

A few years ago I had this conversation with a recruiter and I asked, ‘why do you recruit talent in advertising to fill spots? What happens if we turned it on its head and agencies didn’t become factories that produced advertising and therefore had to hire talent?

What if we went to the Hollywood market where advertising agencies became like talent agencies where they represented the best talent in the world at creating storytelling for advertising and for marketing?

Neal:

I’m 100% with you. When my clients ask me what stories we should tell and who should be telling them? I don’t talk about ‘we need a video. We need a blog.’ Instead ‘we need to talk to my buddy, Tim, who’s one of the best business journalists in the region. We need to get him in because that guy’s going to write the shit out of this. Or my buddy Leo or Fraser because those guys know how to tell a beautiful natural history story. Let’s get those guys around the table and get them fired up’.

They’re going to be so excited about your brief. And I talk about people now. I don’t talk about media.

Darren:

I think it’s interesting that in that context media (and what was creative or content split apart in the advertising industry) and the distribution channels, which is what media is, have become consolidated; it’s big business, data driven. It has strategy and creativity at some level but it’s largely about having a massive infrastructure.

On the other side you’ve got content creation, which can actually fragment. It’s actually more interesting having lots and lots of really talented people out there producing content because you’ll get diversity, different approaches and innovation.

What’s happened to Hollywood studios over the last 20 or 30 years? They’ve all consolidated and become Sony, Tristar, Colombia. There are 3 studios all consolidated into one. What do they do? They largely don’t produce content. They either acquire it or contract it from independent producers.

Neal:

Really what they do is finance and market it. That’s what they do.

Darren:

Through the channels they own.

Neal:

But the relationship they have with creators is very interesting. The best thing that can happen to you as a film-maker in Hollywood is that someone like Universal or Warner Brothers says, ‘we love you, we think your ideas are great and we want to set you up with an office on our lot. We’ll pay for everything. You just come in and have as many ideas as you can and share them with us.’

It’s so talent-centric, so talent-driven. Some clients do that. You look at the Foundry and Unilever but a lot of people keep the talent at arm’s length. They find them messy and difficult and they go ‘just how much for a video?’ not ‘come and sit with me in my organisation, have a look around, see if you can spot a story, find an opportunity’.

Darren:

Then the talent like the Spielberg’s that have been through that system and then they go out and become independent producers because it gives them greater control, they can make more money, have their pet projects and then pitch that back to the studio.

Because the studio is largely the way, whether it’s the traditional theatrical studio or the streamers, that you commercialise your product. And the product is the creative output of storytelling.

Neal:

I do think that creators themselves can be a bit more proactive. For example, Cheryl Goh from Grab Taxi told a story a couple of years ago when I saw her on stage about how a production company had come to her with an idea, ‘we’ve got this idea. We want to make it anyway but we think this would be great for Grab’.

And she went for it. She said, ‘I wasn’t expecting it or looking for it but this is a really good pitch; I’m going to go for it’. That’s how Holly wood works. You go through the door with an idea you’re totally passionate about and I’d love to see brands and agencies be more open to that.

Darren:

Robert Altman’s The Player and everyone was pitching all the way through the film ideas because it’s all about a movie studio.

Neal:

How have I not seen that?

Darren:

It also has the longest opening tracking shot of any film ever shot.

Neal:

That’s the sort of geek trivia I appreciate.

Darren:

But what I liked about it was people were pitching on this basis; they’d pick 2 box office hits and just put them together and people would get it straight away.

Neal:

The legendary 80s producing duo of Jerry Bruckheimer and Don Simpson came up with the concept movie. The concept movie was apparently Don would just shout at a PA, ‘Tom Cruise—fighter jets—write it’. Or the Days of Thunder; ‘Tom Cruise—racing cars—write it’. But for a short period they had the golden touch.

Darren:

I think that content is largely misrepresented by marketing as a concept. What I mean by that is when we talk to a lot of marketers about content they think about web pages, videos about how we make our product and things like that. They actually have a very factory-out view of what content means. And yet almost everything we’ve been talking about here is consumer-in.

Neal:

And a very media-centric view; they commission by medium. I was talking to Andy Greenaway recently, a fairly well-known and respected creative director in our region. And he was talking about the big idea. I know it’s a slightly romanticised notion within our industry but have the idea first then work out the medium.

Don’t go round just commissioning videos or blogs before you’ve got the idea. Let’s think of something you want to say and then work out what is the best way to express it. That’s what Visa used to do with Click to View.

Darren:

Sorry, you’ve given me a headache because the number of clients that have said to me, ‘I want the agency to do the big idea but then I want to see it as a TV ad’. They couldn’t actually see the idea unless it was expressed as advertising.

Neal:

One of the best clients we ever got to work with at Click to View was Visa and the reason was that they were committed to doing storytelling with their merchants and customers. And they had this budget ring-fenced. And they found a story and then they would sit down with us, me and Simon and the Click to View team and ask what’s the best way to tell this story?

And there was no ‘you have to produce X number of videos, blogs, photostories and infographics’; it was ‘what’s the best way to tell this story?’ And this one was a video, this one was an infographic and we would do it that way and consequently, even if you didn’t have the best story because you were telling it in the best possible way for that story it all came out pretty good.

Darren:

Neil, I’ve just noticed the time. I really, really appreciate sitting down and having this conversation because it’s a subject I’m really passionate about.

Neal:

Well, you’re a very good content creator and I use your marketing minute as an example in my workshops about how you should do B2B content. So, keep it up.

Darren:

Thank you. Just to finish up. In the story of your life who would star as Neal Moore?

Ideal for marketers, advertisers, media and commercial communications professionals, Managing Marketing is a podcast hosted by Darren Woolley and special guests. Find all the episodes here

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Darren is considered a thought leader on all aspects of marketing management. A Problem Solver, Negotiator, Founder & Global CEO of TrinityP3 - Marketing Management Consultants, founding member of the Marketing FIRST Forum and Author. He is also a Past-Chair of the Australian Marketing Institute, Ex-Medical Scientist and Ex-Creative Director. And in his spare time he sleeps. Darren's Bio Here Email: darren@trinityp3.com

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