Skye Lambley is the Chief Executive Officer of the public relations group Herd MSL, and sustainability consultancy SalterBaxter.
While some in advertising may think of public relations as what you do support their advertising campaign, the truth is more organisations are looking to public relations as an effective way to not just communicate with but influence a wide range of essential audiences – from consumers and customers to shareholder and regulators, employees and more.
Mainly today, most organisations find themselves needing to communicate an increasingly complex range of issues, including diversity, equity and inclusion, gender equality, environmental sustainability, and the list goes on.
This is where public relations come into its own.
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Brands come up with a campaign and then they come up with a creative, and then they have… it’s almost like it’s already laid out, and then they hand it over to a PR agency and say, “Okay, PR this.”
Transcription:
Darren:
Hi, I am Darren Woolley, founder and CEO of TrinityP3 Marketing Management Consultancy, and welcome to Managing Marketing, a weekly podcast where we discuss the issues and opportunities facing marketing, media, and advertising with industry thought leaders and practitioners.
Now, while some in advertising may think of public relations as what you do to support their advertising campaign, the truth is more organizations are looking to public relations as an effective way to not just communicate but influence a wide range of important audiences from consumers and customers to shareholders and regulators, and more.
Particularly as today, most organizations find themselves needing to communicate an increasingly complex range of issues, including diversity, equity, and inclusion, gender equality, environmental sustainability, and the list goes on. This is where public relations comes into its own.
Today, I am sitting down with someone who understands this better than most. Please welcome to Managing Marketing, the Chief Executive Officer of Public Relations Group, Herd MSL and Sustainability Consultancy, SalterBaxter, Skye Lambley.
Welcome, Skye.
Skye:
Thanks, Darren. Thank you. Excited to be here.
Darren:
Let’s start with SalterBaxter because it’s a personal thing for me about how business is going to address an environmentally sustainable world.
Because I find that globally, there are parts of the world like Europe where we do business, where there’s a lot more action happening compared to the Australian market, what was the motivation behind SalterBaxter?
Skye:
A couple of things actually were driving that, I think. We were seeing consumers’ expectations of what they wanted in terms of product services, but also brands and how they were changing. And then I think everyone is being flooded with particular messages, and there was some scepticism around that, I suppose, sustainability fatigue if you like.
And then also some backlash. We’ve seen, obviously, ACCC also having a point of view on that, too, with things, the clamping down on greenwashing.
So, I think there was a whole lot of things that thought that there was a real need to authentically support businesses in their sustainability journey. But what I didn’t want to do, and I could see around me was lots of brands, particularly comms agencies or marketing agencies jumping into sustainability as a new profit center, which kind of is a bit ironic given the whole thinking sustainability more broadly of not just environment, but economic and social, you mentioned diversity and inclusion in the intro too.
So, sustainability, we look at as a real broader view on how do you be sustainable in business and then create a sustainable planet. What I didn’t want to do was to put lipstick on a pig and do what I had observed others in the market doing, which was, oh, we can slap a sustainable messaging on a particular campaign or a sustainable slant, on a product offering, when really it wasn’t authentic.
And so, we were going to create something from scratch here in Australia, and then what we observed that in the UK, and as you mentioned, the UK and Europe are way ahead of Australia, New Zealand and Asia, I should say, in terms of regulation and the speed in which they have, I suppose, jumped on making sure their business is more sustainable.
And what I discovered was that there was a business within the Publicis Group in the UK that they acquired about six, seven years ago but had actually been in business for 25 years focused on sustainability consultancy, and that was before sustainability was cool.
And what was super cool about it was it was this combination of real sustainability consultancy and credibility. So, if you think about probably what a lot of the big consultancies do, deep thought and expertise around the whole multifaceted disciplines within sustainability.
But then also, what they coupled that with, which is what the big four consultancies aren’t doing necessarily and even some of the more sustainability specific consultancies locally, is they’re not coupling that with creativity.
So, we would argue with what we are talking to clients about, is how do you get that great intersection between strong, credible consultancy when it comes to sustainability, with amazing creativity. Because if you don’t have both of those things, you won’t drive the progress that we need, both at a business level, and then also obviously at a bigger, really ambitious level of saving the planet, I suppose.
So, that’s kind of where SalterBaxter came about, and we’ve had a lot of conversations, a lot of interest in talking to businesses at different parts in terms of their journey on sustainability.
Darren:
It’s interesting because I think what’s happened in Australia is that suddenly, businesses are going, “Oh, there’s an expectation that we’ve got to do something” without a lot of thought about well, what does that actually mean? And I think the mistake, the wrong footing that we’ve seen is people trying to put band-aids on what is a much bigger transformation process.
But a lot of this is being driven by something that you mentioned earlier, which is, that consumers now have a very different expectation of commercial enterprises than they had 20 years ago.
Skye:
I think that there’s some really interesting stats out there. There’s one, I think from some YouGov data, about 44% of consumers want to buy from businesses that are ethically in terms of their social initiatives, in terms of their environmental initiatives, that they’re ingrained in their business.
And so, it’s not a conversation or a nice-to-have anymore. It’s if you don’t do these things and fundamentally change in many cases, your business model, and there’s plenty of examples of that. You think of Patagonia, that’s a really obvious example.
Darren:
And a common one that people bring up, but it exists at the very core of the business’s philosophy and approach to business, doesn’t it?
Skye:
It does, and so that’s an easier thing for people to grapple with because these are these new businesses that are born out of this purpose-led philosophy. But then there’s businesses that have been in the industry for years.
I mean, IKEA’s doing a lot in this space, too. It really is challenging consumerism and the very nature of capitalism in creating a demand for recycled or more circular economy.
And so, it’s kind of at odds with making more money, making more stuff, selling more stuff, getting people to buy more stuff. So, it’s actually challenging marketing more broadly. But I think brands need to think about some of those bigger business transformation opportunities because if they don’t, they won’t exist.
Darren:
And do you think that’s possibly why a lot of people in marketing struggle with the idea? Like at a personal level, they want to be sustainable, they want to work for a company that’s committed to sustainability, but when it actually comes to changing the way they think about their business, because marketing does drive consumption, they’re suddenly conflicted in a way that they can’t reconcile, so they end up doing nothing.
Skye:
I think so, and I think that really talks to the importance of your sustainability strategy being embedded in your business strategy, because if it is, the marketing piece is a flow on effect from that.
So, if you’re fundamentally changing the way that you are creating products and services or driving demand or driving growth in your business, and you’re doing that more sustainably, then the marketing piece becomes a lot easier.
Where it becomes a problem is when sustainability is given to the marketing person to be told, “Go and do some stuff that’s sustainable or come up with a sustainability strategy.”
Darren:
Or at least do something that makes us look like we’re sustainable, even if we’re not.
Skye:
That lipstick on a pig thing.
Darren:
The other thing is that maybe 20 years ago, maybe 50 years ago, a corporation could get away with, but in the world of the 24/7 news cycle, social media, you really can’t hide anymore, can you? You can’t hide behind the big corporate muscle and say, “Well, that’s not true.”
Skye:
Absolutely. And I think the importance of all the things that we would say from a … and this again, is probably the difference between what we do in PR and comms as opposed to some of the advertising, is the engagement of internal stakeholders because of things like social media, for example, they’re the biggest advocates or biggest critics.
And so, whether it’s sustainability or any other company initiative, you’ve got to … and we all know what it’s been like to get talent over the last couple of years. It’s been torture. And so, keeping them is important and having a vision and a strategy that aligns with their own personal beliefs and views is becoming more and more critical.
So, I think that leverage, it’s not just about externally how you’re coming across, but it’s about your ability to attract talent, keep talent, and then use them as your biggest advocates, both internal and externally. So, I think that is where the advantages or the additional value, I suppose, of comms and where PR comes, because internal communications, getting that right first is just so critical.
Darren:
You’ve made me realize in my introduction, I left out employees. I did put shareholders, but employees are such an important part of that comms mix. And you’re right, from an advertising perspective, paid media is usually about talking to consumers, even in a B2B world, they’re consumers they just happen to be businesspeople. But PR does take a much sort of 360 view of the world, doesn’t it?
Skye:
It does and I think that the opportunity and the need to be … I think what’s really great and what the introduction of SalterBaxter through this market has taught me, and that kind of coupling of consultancy and business consultancy with communications has taught me, and I think is just as important in terms of my Herd MSL work on the broader comms front, it’s not so sustainability-focused.
Is that close link between a business strategy and comms, that authenticity, and then finding out ways that brands can leverage what they’re doing from a business strategy perspective to be authentic in the way that they communicate.
And I think brands more importantly than ever, these days, need to be thinking about what they’re doing to help people. That’s why I suppose in challenging times, like when we had COVID, our business grew hugely when all of other businesses were going down and spend was being tightened because they realized that actually this is a perfect opportunity for brands to step into consumers and stakeholders to say how they could help in times of challenge.
So, I think it’s a really interesting space and we can come at it from many different angles.
Darren:
So, before we move away from sustainability, because I think the other thing that’s happened in the last 15 years is the UN sustainability goals. They put together those 19 goals, included things like modern slavery was added as part of that environmental sustainability, clean water, gender equality.
These were all things that the UN sat and defined as the goals for a sustainable and improved world. And what we’ve seen over the last 10 years at least, is this trickledown effect of then it gets to government, that are signatories to the UN, and they’re then enacting legislation and policies that are now impacting on business. And so, there is definitely a shift for business to embrace this.
So, there’s a consumer driven shift that you identified, which is people want to do business, they want to spend money with companies that are doing the right thing, but there’s also a legislative and government shift to support these goals, isn’t there?
Skye:
There is and that’s probably why Europe is so far ahead of us, because they were much quicker to the party in terms of creating that regulation and legislation around the way businesses should perform.
So, they’re coming and they’re going to be thick and fast, and I suppose our advice to the clients that we are talking to is getting quick and be prepared because there’s no point in scrambling. And almost, if you’re waiting for that regulation to come down, which is imminent in many different forms, you’re going to miss the boat a little bit.
Darren:
The other problem I see for organizations that wait, is that they end up responding or reacting rather than doing what you were suggesting, which is taking a strategic approach. Okay, what’s the implication?
And even in the advertising industry, everyone, a year ago, was talking about diversity, equity, inclusion as the good thing to do. But only a few companies were starting to reframe that as the what was the positive for their business, which is diversity and inclusion actually drives creativity and innovation. And yet, that is a more sustainable reason for embracing DE&I, other than just doing the right thing, isn’t it?
Skye:
Well, the reality is that being more sustainable makes good business sense. And that’s what the challenge is, or the tension is, I think now we’re talking to companies, is they don’t quite get it. Some do, some could totally do.
Darren:
Well, most think it’s a tax. “Oh, I’ve got to pay more to be sustainable.”
Skye:
But the problem is that if they don’t fundamentally change the way that they do business over time, they won’t be in existence in five years, 10 years’ time, because they will become irrelevant and as I said, consumer expectations are already changing. They just won’t be … it’s actually a question of their business being sustainable if they choose not to be sustainable.
Sounds really complicated but I think it’s a real challenge for businesses because it may present some big innovative thinking, but the risk is that they won’t be able to keep up with what consumers’ expectations are and therefore, become irrelevant.
Darren:
Now, PR is an interesting definition because it’s quite broad, isn’t it? Everything from corporate comms and corporate strategy through to promotions and media relations and things like that. So, Herd MSL, how would you say to someone, is it a full breadth PR operation?
Skye:
We are a full-service agency. We look after everything from an audience perspective, from consumer and brand work, right through to more B2B and corporate work.
A lot of our clients sit in the middle, corpsumer, which the combination of having those quite steep specialized skills really helps. Most brands actually, you talk to consumers because that’s who buy your products, but also, there is a corporate piece that also talks to the consumers, but other stakeholders, whether that be regulators, industry, government, et cetera.
So, we are full-service and everything from … the term public relations to some means media relations. The media landscape is shrinking. It has been, for as long as I’ve been in this industry, which is over 20 years. I’ve heard this, “Oh, the media landscape is shrinking.” And that is true, and I think that the skill to be able to distill a message is more important than ever.
But I actually think that the true art in terms of PR and comms is around making that really complex message really simple, but also, the difference, I suppose, between PR and some of those other disciplines is making sure that you’ve got the authenticity and the proof points to be able to back up that narrative that you are telling in whatever way that is.
So, whether it’s writing a speech for a CEO from a corporate commerce perspective, whether it is working with a CEO to have a one on conversation with a tier one daily, for example. It could be working with them on their opinion pieces for LinkedIn, it could be a whole combination of things.
Darren:
So, Skye, from my experience, that breadth of service, that breadth of expertise actually has some tensions in it. Now, let me explain.
I had a conversation with the head of comms, and I was talking about why can’t they align with marketing. Because they were actually almost talking at odds. The message at the corporate level and the marketing level were polar opposites.
And they said, “Darren, you’ve got to understand, marketing’s all about new and different, and comms’s high risk. Corporate comms, our job is to keep things stable and settled and make sure everyone feels more comfortable.”
And that was their perspective, that the two parts had very different objectives, that their role in corporate comms is to make sure shareholders and investors and government, nothing to look at here. Whereas they saw marketing as sort of drawing attention to themselves and that that was a natural risk.
Is that an exaggeration or do you think that’s attention that does exist for a lot of organizations?
Skye:
I think it can be a tension, but to be honest, it’s even a tension for us in working with clients as an agency. So, I think we would love … we’ve just been looking through all the Cannes work that’s come out as a result of the recent Cannes Lion Festival, and I was lucky enough to be there last year.
And you look at that and you go, “I wish some of my clients would be more brave.” Because some of those things, you pitch those into a client as an idea, hijacking an issue or a moment, and they go, “Oh, we can’t do that.” You get the corporate comms lens going on thinking, “Oh, that’s true …”
Darren:
Risk, risk, risk, risk.
Skye:
“Can’t do that.” And so, that can be frustrating for parts of us that actually think to tell the story positively, sometimes you’ve got to be a bit irreverent. Sometimes you’ve got to be a bit challenging, and if it works from a brand’s purpose perspective and their brand identity perspective, then that’s probably the right thing to do.
Our job sometimes is to keep our clients out of the media as much as it is, get them in there. So, we’ve had plenty of issues and crisis to manage for multiple brands that we look after over the years. And our job literally is how do you get them out of that conversation? Or how do you put a lid on that as much as possible or make them coming out better than everyone else that’s caught up in that conversation?
So, there’s always that tension and I think that good comms people understand the risks and be able to advise their clients and whether those risks are worth taking.
Darren:
The irony is, of course, that it looks like Oscar Wilde was right when he said, “The only thing worse than people talking about you is not talking about you.”
And when we’ve seen brands that have done huge faux pas, whether it’s Volkswagen getting called out on their diesel emissions or any of the number of designer brands that have made big faux pas. In actual fact, handling it the right way, not trying to stifle it — but handling it the right way has been a huge boon.
Skye:
Absolutely, and I think there’s two ways that you can do that. One of them is you get lemon, you make lemonade. So, sometimes turning those big disasters, there are really clever communications ways to turn them into perhaps, to be seen as a brand, to be much more approachable for people. Actually, you can get it wrong too.
But another, it also goes back to my previous point about the importance of perhaps, and the advantage I think of some communications people, which is being really clear on what that business strategy is because if you are clear on that, you’ll give much better advice in terms of what to do and what not to do from a communications point of view.
Because you do need to understand those risks and that point too, I mentioned earlier around authenticity. So, sometimes, that can be the tension in terms of marketing. It’s a lot of big promises to gain that attention.
Darren:
To get attention but you then don’t deliver.
Skye:
Correct, and that’s always a problem.
Darren:
So, that’s great because my personal interpretation of the definition of authenticity is being your word. If you say you’re going to do something, do it, no matter what. And yet, authenticity gets all sorts of bastardization of talking in an honest way. Well, that’s being your word. Just do what you say you’re going to do.
Skye:
I think that word “do” is really important now from a comms perspective. So, it’s no longer enough to say you actually have to do. And we’ve been working with clients on a whole host of different pieces of work. It’s about thinking about what you’re going to offer.
For example, if you’re a bank that’s trying to help financial abuse, for example, of females and trying to get them out of that situation-
Darren:
Domestic violence.
Skye:
Correct, and we do a lot of work in this space with one of our clients. But you can’t just say that that’s what you’re going to do. You’re going to throw money at the problem.
Darren:
No, you’ve got to make it happen because the first thing is the media will pick up a story about a woman that has no resources because the bank didn’t come to the party.
Skye:
And that goes right back to your, again, your business strategy in terms of what products and services are you doing to help that particular cohort of people that you so claim that you’re there to help. So, action’s really important too, I think, when it comes to comms.
Darren:
So, don’t just talk the talk, actually walk the walk.
Skye:
Absolutely.
Darren:
It’s interesting, I don’t know if you’ve picked up on this, but the backlash on supporting pride. The number of people that have said to me, “I’m not gay for one week or one month a year. I’m actually gay 365 days of the year. So, why do you only put your support up for that one week?”
Skye:
And there’s a lot of that jumping on the bandwagon and there’s plenty of people too, that we’ve got to understand that when you are doing something in support of a minority or the yes/no vote, for example, that you might be speaking for a large portion of your employees or your customers, but you also potentially could be alienating the same amount or more, or even a very important.
So, there’s lots of conversations or questions for brands to ask themselves when they’re making out their statements about their political beliefs.
Darren:
I’ve always followed the philosophy though that it’s very hard to have a hundred percent of people, a hundred percent support you. It’s far better to pick a divisive subject and make a stand on it as long as the numbers pretty much stack up 50/50.
Skye:
And I would say as long as it aligns with your purpose and your values. I think it’s all got to be in alignment because people are going to want to work for a business that they support the purpose and the values for. So, standing for certain things that are aligned with those makes sense.
Darren:
It is increasingly difficult because so many issues have become polar opposites. You’re either yes or no for the vote. You’re either a climate denial, luckily in very small numbers or you are your pro climate change, addressing the climate issue. It must be hard for organizations because what happens if your organization isn’t neatly one way or the other?
Skye:
I think you’ve got to ask yourself whether you do take a position on that.
Darren:
Because sometimes, it’s okay not to have a position.
Skye:
I think so, but again, I think that if you are really clear on your value and purpose, it probably should be quite obvious what your potential position should be, maybe not always. But if you are around inclusivity, for example, and that could be part of your values and your purpose or to give access to everybody for a particular product or service or depending on what that is, something like supporting the LGBTQ community seems a bit of a no brainer.
I think there’s a lot of nuances in the yes/no conversation, so that makes it a little bit more difficult, I think.
Darren:
Well because it’s not a simple yes/no. On the no side, there’s actually multiple streams. And on the yes side, it’s probably more unified, but it’s not just yes or no.
Skye:
So, I think that’s a trickier one, but it’s very interesting. Again, it’s something that has changed, I think over probably the last 10 years in terms of our expectations on brands to even have a point of view as if they’re a person, that they should have an ethical philosophical point of view on all of life’s issues and they’ve got all the answers. So, there’s a huge responsibility on business leaders, I think.
Darren:
It’s also interesting, the rise of the personality CEO, that the role of leadership has now increasingly become important where a CEO, for instance, or a chair of a board who’s making a stand on something because they become a spokesperson for the company.
Skye:
They do, and I think there’s pros and cons of that. And I think again, it’s got to come down to authenticity. Some people are naturally that way where they want to voice their opinion and it works, and others aren’t, and I think you’ve got to stay true to that.
And look, we work with some brands where the promotion of individuals for that brand is really celebrated and others where they think, “Actually, we are bigger than a person.” Because then what happens when that person leaves? Where does that leave the brand?
Darren:
Well, just as the example everyone uses of that is Richard Branson, but he’s also the founder. I think a much more interesting one is Alan Joyce, the departed CEO of Qantas, because Qantas wasn’t founded by him, but he’s definitely made a very strong personal position in that role for many years.
Skye:
And a very good example I think of, probably one of the leaders, I would say, in this country, of taking a stance on things that perhaps aren’t necessarily directly related to his business. So, I think he was very vocal around the marriage equality vote back when that was being discussed, it feels like forever ago, thank goodness, in the sense that we’ve come so much further since then.
Darren:
And indigenous equality and a lot of issues.
Skye:
And I think that comes from a brand and his own personal perspectives and the culture that he’s really fostered within that business frame.
Darren:
And the employees.
Skye:
Yeah, of course.
Darren:
Very strong employee culture as well, interesting example. Why is it that you think that advertising agencies are inclined to think of PR as an afterthought?
Skye:
I don’t think they really understand what we do. I actually don’t think they understand the breadth.
Darren:
And we’re here at Publicis Group, so present company accepted, they understand absolutely the value of PR.
Skye:
They do, and I’m all as a leader at our PR business within Publicis Group. I think I’m always constantly educating because as we’ve talked about, the gamut in which we cover is pretty broad.
And I think that often what happens, and we see it time and time again, that brands come up with a campaign and then they come up with a creative, and then they have all of the … it’s almost like it’s already laid out, and then they hand it over to a PR agency and say, “Okay, PR this.” And they haven’t thought about the earned capability or all of the other things that could have been contemplated at a really strategic level upfront.
And so, look, I think we are always learning about how best to do that. So, when we are talking to clients that actually want an integrated campaign across creative media and earned, I think having all of those different leaders in a room from the get-go to work out where everyone’s role is and what makes sense for that particular brief is really critical.
Darren:
I’ve got a very specific question, and that is, do you find in PR, you’re more likely to talk about brand or reputation or both? Are the two interchangeable from a PR perspective?
Skye:
No, I would say they’re not interchangeable.
Darren:
Okay.
Skye:
Well, let me think about that actually, because I think that reputation is more than brand. Again, it comes back to actions, but it also comes back to … and the problem that we have is there’s much easier metrics to measure how a brand is performed. The perennial challenge for me as a leader of a PR and comms agency is how do we measure reputation? And it’s much more intangible.
And I think that that’s a real problem. It’s really a problem for us in terms of how we commercially charge for what we offer because you can’t touch it and feel it. Brand to me, there’s brand metrics and there’s certain things that can be done. Reputation, I find is a lot more furry.
Darren:
Because a lot of conversations I have with businesspeople, they actually struggle with the concept of brand, but they get business reputation and they get goodwill, which sits on the balance sheet. But brand value, we are still struggling to get a methodology to put the value of the brand on the balance sheet.
And that’s why I raised the question because for me, brand increasingly is a situation where the company that owns the brand does not share the same name as the product brand or the service brand.
But I would say for the average consumer, if the brand and the company name are exactly the same, then they would think reputation and brand are interchangeable. Because what they think about Disney and what they think about Disney movies would be inextricably linked. They wouldn’t be thinking about the Disney brand because the company is exactly the same name.
Skye:
It’s a really tough question actually and I suppose you’re right in terms of goodwill, but that’s also part of it, that’s a very simplistic way also to measure a brand’s reputation. So, we haven’t solved it and it’s definitely a-
Darren:
It’s a challenge.
Skye:
If I can, I’ll be a millionaire, so leave it with me.
Darren:
No, look, I just find so often we have these conversations, particularly in marketing and advertising around brand and brand values and brand metrics, but they’re not necessarily terms or concepts that resonate at a business level.
And I think it’s one of the things, if we could find some way of getting at least a model that links those together, then it would open up the idea of brand and the relationship between the two.
Skye:
I think they are absolutely intrinsically linked. For me, I suppose the big differentiator is brand for me could be about recognition or recollection, whereas reputation is a feeling. That’s just probably how … I’m oversimplifying it in my own brain.
Darren:
I just raised it because as we’re talking, I thought, you know, this is really interesting because the things that you were saying about helping the role of PR and comms to actually change the way people think and feel about a business or a brand seems to be the same thing that we’re trying to do in advertising. They’re working to the same goal but have two totally different ways of talking about them.
Skye:
Yeah. They do. They totally do.
Darren:
And in some ways, if we get corporate comms and marketing actually aligned, I know they have different … to my example of the comms director saying, “We’re trying to make everyone feel calm and secure.” Well, maybe the two can work hand in hand.
Skye:
You would hope so. I think in an ideal world and the ability to do the best work is when they do.
Darren:
Well, I think you had the solution there, which is both of them should be aligned to the business strategy. There is only one business strategy, it’s how you interpret that for the various objectives that you’re trying to meet.
Skye:
Absolutely. And it comes back to that authenticity and the action of those brands which affect both the brand and the reputation.
Darren:
It’s interesting from a personal perspective, I notice I get most angry and most disappointed in the brands and businesses that I have the most emotional commitment to when they let me down.
Skye:
Because you’re invested.
Darren:
They’ve made this promise to me, and I expect them to be a certain way, and when they don’t live up to that expectation, I get so frustrated because I expect-
Skye:
And for many consumers, we experienced that, didn’t we? With the data breaches of recent times. And that’s the kind of stuff that really affects both the brand and the reputation because people expect you to keep your data and your identity sacred. And so, things like that are of course, going to have massive problems.
I think there’s a big responsibility on people who are looking after the corporate comms. And I think a lot of things that are really important to a business, whether that be sustainability, whether that be security, falls on the shoulders and the responsibility often of corporate affairs or comms people.
And so, I think that the role can’t be under underestimated. And I think marketing perhaps could do a better job generally of supporting that.
Darren:
Be aligned. We’ve also had the rise in the last 20 years, the mom and dad investor. So, when Telstra floated back last century, how could the mom and dad investor that have Telstra shares see that as anything different to the Telstra brand that’s marketing and selling products to them? The two become, from a consumer point of view, become inextricably linked.
Skye:
Yeah, absolutely.
Darren:
It’s an interesting concept.
Skye:
Very interesting.
Darren:
Skye, it’s been fantastic having this conversation with you. I’ve really enjoyed … well, first of all, your passion, but also your professionalism and the perspective that you bring to it. So, thank you very much.
Skye:
Thanks for having me, Darren. It was quite fun.
Darren:
I have got a question before you go, and that is: of all of the brands or businesses that you regularly interact with, which is the one that you trust the most?