Nichole Williamson Davidson is a branding and digital marketing expert, currently the Chief Brand Officer at Zilker Media, an end-to-end marketing solution for thought leaders and the companies they lead.
Nicholes believes that business executives should focus on their personal brand and not just their institutional brand. This philosophy and approach have seen her create successful digital strategies for thought leaders, best-selling authors, and community brands seeking to grow their online presence.
She shares with us what leaders should be doing and, more importantly, what they should not be doing when building their personal brand.
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We definitely don’t recommend someone post two times a day, seven days a week. That’s not needed. It’s all about quality versus quantity.
Transcription:
Darren:
Hi, I’m Darren Woolley, founder, and CEO of TrinityP3 Marketing Management Consultancy, and welcome to Managing Marketing, a weekly podcast where we discuss the issues and opportunities facing marketing, media, and advertising with industry thought leaders and practitioners.
My guest today is a branding and digital marketing expert, currently the Chief Brand Officer at Zilker Media, an end-to-end marketing solution for thought leaders and the companies they lead. It is her belief that business executives should focus on their personal brand and not just their institutional brand.
This philosophy and approach has seen her create successful digital strategies for thought leaders, bestselling authors, and community brands seeking to grow their online presence.
Please welcome to Managing Marketing the Chief Brand officer at Zilker Media, Nichole Williamson Davidson. Welcome, Nichole.
Nichole:
Hi there, thanks for having me.
Darren:
Look, it’s a really interesting area, personal branding, particularly in the era of social media. It seems that we’ve got influencers and particularly professionally, a lot of people that call themselves thought leaders. What do you think of the self-proclaimed thought leader?
Nichole:
You’ve seen this term ‘thought leader’ grow so much over the last couple of years, and it’s made it really exciting for us, at least on our side of how we do business. It gives people an opportunity to have their own personal branding and thought leadership, and to really communicate a message to build a community if you’re doing it correctly.
But I love that people have really owned this term and have really dived headfirst into just how they can own their own positioning and become their own ‘thought leader’ and expert in their industry. I think that’s been a wonderful shift I’ve seen on social media the last couple of years.
Darren:
Because the first time I came across the concept was actually more than a decade ago. It was very early on, and there was a pool installer, I think it was in North Carolina, who became a thought leader on pool installations because they ran a blog — and remember blogs? That used to answer all the questions that their clients had.
And because of this, it became the go-to place for finding out about pools. So, it’s almost any category can have a thought leader, can’t it?
Nichole:
Any industry, any category, book, if you’re an author, that’s a great way to do it. If you’re a speaker or if you’re just an executive (and I say just) at any type of company, there are so many opportunities to drive a message for your brand. And maybe, if you’re an executive at a company, be the thought leader for your company and help move your company forward.
I love that there are so many industries involved now and like a pool installation, you’re not siloed to, “Oh, well, I can only be a thought leader if I’m Brene Brown.” And I’m like, “No, you have a voice. You have impact as well.”
So, there’s just a lot of opportunity there, and I love that we see so many different industries because there are so many different areas of impact that can be had.
Darren:
Now, we know a lot about influencers, because influencers get a lot of sort of trade media time for marketing. But how does a thought leader differ from an influencer in your mind?
Nichole:
Well, a thought leader is really probably driving business results or lead gen or maybe just kind of being that executive, pushing their company forward. The influencer is getting paid to post 9 times out of 10.
So, they’re selling a product for someone else, and they may have their own point of view, but 9 times out of 10, they’re getting paid to do that content. The thought leader, more or less, is focused on building trust around their brand, building a community, building impact.
And again, not saying that influencers can’t do that. I think we’ve seen great examples recently of how influencers can. But thought leaders, I think it’s a little bit more about impact and community, and how to really drive a message out there that’s going to help others and drive business results at the end of the day. There’s a little crossover though, for sure.
Darren:
Well, certainly, a thought leader could become an influencer, couldn’t they? Particularly in that category. But I like the distinction that a lot of the influencers are actually hired guns a bit like celebrity spokespeople.
Nichole:
They are, and they actually, to me, have more impact than celebrity spokespeople just because they’re us. They’re everyday people who just have a massive following over time. I have fallen to the will of the influencer multiple times of purchasing things that I probably don’t need, but it works, and it’s definitely a marketing tactic that is continuing to grow and be successful.
Darren:
The interesting thing though is a lot of business people feel uncomfortable, don’t they? Putting themselves out there.
Nichole:
We see that a lot. A lot of people are like, “Well, I don’t want this to be about me, I don’t want it to appear like I have an ego.” And it’s not about ego, it’s about impact and trust. And that’s what we try to really reaffirm with our clients, that no one’s going to trust your brand, just your brand posting and your website and a logo.
You need so much more than that. You need the humanizing approach to it, you need to be the one driving the message, you need to be the one talking about your purpose and mission. And if you don’t have a human person doing that, it’s not going to work.
So, how do we position our executives and thought leaders at the forefront of the brand is really essential to what we do, to help them drive their business goals, which we talk about with them all the time. But it’s utilizing both to drive everything forward.
Darren:
It is interesting how as human beings, we do gravitate towards other humans, isn’t it? It’s such a basic need to either connect or follow with real people.
And I use that term real there, sometimes people use the term authentic or genuine, but that would be an important part, wouldn’t it? Of being a thought leader, of building your own personal brand is really not trying to be something you’re not.
Nichole:
It’s so important, that authenticity, the genuine approach to it is so critical. Don’t try and be someone you’re not. Don’t try and be Brene Brown. Brene Brown is Brene Brown, like let her do her thing. Mel Robbins is Mel Robbins, let her be Mel Robbins.
We want everyone to have their own voice. And you have your unique message and we really work to find that and pull that out of people. If you get on there though and you’re just kind of posting and throwing out numbers that don’t have anything to do with what you’re doing or you’re trying to be this expert in all fields, it doesn’t land.
So, really focus on what your mission is, what value you can bring to someone with your approach, and just be authentic. It’s all about that authenticity at the end of the day. That’s what’s going to land, that’s what’s going to build a community and draw people in.
Darren:
It’s interesting from my perspective, because people talk about authenticity and they go, “Well, how do you know it’s authentic?” I always say to them, “If you feel awkward saying it, you’re probably not being authentic.” I think most people in themselves have enough self-awareness to know when they’re trying to be something they’re not.
Nichole:
Yeah, and we see people try to replicate other things. It’s like, “Well, I love this and I love what they’re doing.” I’m like, “Well, they’re doing it really well, but we need to find your thing, we need to find your approach. We want someone to look at you and be like, ‘Wow, I love what they’re doing, it’s so unique.’” And not just replicating everything that’s going on.
Especially now with AI tools like ChatGPT, there’s so much content out there and it’s so much more than we’ve ever seen before, because anyone can throw something into ChatGPT and be like, “Write me 10 posts about this.” But you need your perspective and if you don’t have your perspective on it, it’s just not meaningful.
So, ChatGPT is great for what it’s worth, and using it as a baseline and brainstorming is wonderful, but you got to have your side, you got to be you, and you got to have your approach and your perspective and your values in what you’re doing.
Darren:
Well, just on that, I recently saw another AI app that will take a script and put it into your voice, and then another one that will scan you and have you perform that on video. So, basically for all those people that are terrified of having themselves recorded in front of video, you can AI the whole thing and create a deep fake version of you saying whatever the script likes.
Nichole:
That’s terrifying, that’s a little terrifying to me. How far that has gone, I’ve seen things as far as I don’t know which AI tool is, but they have other artists singing other artists’ music. And so, I’m like, “How does that work?” I feel like that’s probably a copyright issue of some kind. But yeah, it’s definitely taken over a lot of things, especially on the content development front.
Darren:
Well, I just feel that it’s going to make authenticity and people being genuine so much more important, because when we’re flooded with all these fakes and AI-generated messages and images, then we’ve got a real problem there with who do you believe?
Nichole:
Absolutely. If people really spend time … our big priority is LinkedIn. If you spend time on LinkedIn consistently, a couple times a week and reading through a feed, you can absolutely tell who used AI tools to write their content and didn’t change anything, just straight up copy and pasted it, and who actually spent time putting a post together in their own voice and their own message. To me, it’s very, very obvious.
So, I always laugh because I’m like, “Well, I think I’ve seen that post somewhere else before.” So, again, it’s great, we always encourage people who are writing their own content to use it as a baseline, definitely. It helps get you started, it helps brainstorm. Sometimes sitting down to write a post is difficult.
So, definitely, use the tools that are given to you, but don’t lose your perspective. Don’t lose who you are, and don’t lose your voice because that’s what matters and that’s what people want to see.
Darren:
And I think that’s important because everyone does have a voice and a perspective that they’ll bring to any topic, that the danger is when they start copying each other, then it just ends up a bit like bad advertising, nothing stands out because everything seems the same.
Nichole:
It does, and I think the other thing that I see is, what doesn’t work is when people make content all about them all the time, we call that you-driven content, it’s something you have to do.
You’ve got to sell sometimes, you’ve got to make posts about you from time to time, but think about value that you can add beyond that and relationship building that you can have in your content. We love interview series and podcasts and all of those things.
Find ways to do that, to bring someone else into your world and have conversations. I think that’s so powerful and so impactful because if someone goes on your page and all you’ve done is, “I’m selling this, I did this, I talked about this, I am here on this,” versus “I sat down and talked with so and so, and we had a great conversation about this topic.”
That and you’re inviting that community, you’re inviting that conversation. And so, you’ve got to find that right balance. Otherwise, it can turn people away.
Darren:
Now, you’ve sort of touched on it already, but one of the other obstacles that people find with building their own personal brand or becoming a thought leader is they think it takes a lot of time. That this is almost like a second full-time job. It’s not true, is it?
Nichole:
No, we definitely don’t recommend someone post two times a day, seven days a week. That’s not needed. It’s all about quality versus quantity and acting like a normal human on the platforms. And if LinkedIn is your priority, posting a couple times a week to post at a minimum is great.
It’s value, you’re giving something that people can utilize and create great content, that’s fantastic. But I don’t recommend people spend like 20 hours a week. Sometimes people are so worried about us, like, “No, you don’t have to do that.”
And a lot of times, if you’re utilizing things like video content or if you’re doing a podcast or an interview series, there’s a lot of content that’s going to come from that. If it’s an hour-long conversation, you’ve got multiple opportunities to repurpose and remarket that.
So, we believe in working smarter, not harder. So, utilize the content you spend the time doing and make it work for you.
Darren:
Now, we’ve seen some great examples of very senior business leaders do this. I mean, obviously, Elon Musk comes to mind or Jeff Bezos, that’s the other thing is that they seem to be very out there, highly confident, outspoken personalities, but you can actually build your personal brand without being one of those people, can’t you?
Nichole:
You can. You don’t have to be these giant personalities and sometimes, we don’t need that always. I think it’s-
Darren:
Petty crowded out there.
Nichole:
It can get crowded, and it can get loud as well as we’ve seen. But I think at the end of the day, people will resonate with what’s authentic, like we talked about and what’s real.
And there’s room for that, it’s for who you are. If you are a naturally lean towards being humorous in your content or how you have a normal conversation on the street, pull that out in your content. People will be like, “Oh yeah, I know them personally and that is how they are every time I talk to them.”
But if you’re that and then you come on, you’re super laced up and buttoned up and everything’s really, really formal and really, really straight laced and there’s no humor in it, someone’s going to see that and be like, “That doesn’t feel like you at all, is someone else writing that for you?”
So, you got to find that right thing and yes, there are the big personalities that cause a lot of interesting storylines that we see. But at the end of the day, don’t feel like you have to be that to have an impact. And sometimes, I think the more real approach and coming in with a focus message does more better with that, at least.
Darren:
Now, Nichole, of all these social media platforms, you’ve mentioned LinkedIn a couple of times — is that your preferred go-to for most of your clients that are building their personal brand?
Nichole:
It is. it’s one of the true platforms we see left with a great algorithm. It’s content you want to see, its meaningful content, it’s not a lot of noise. And we see the most results from that. So, if you’re focused on lead gen, you’re focused on biz dev, or you’re just focused on brand awareness, it has a lot of impact and it builds really great communities over time.
There’s so many great tools now and if you’re looking to build connections with other executives or other thought leaders, we’re seeing a lot of them shift to LinkedIn. Back in the day, Twitter was one of the top platforms for … X, excuse me.
Darren:
X now, yes.
Nichole:
X now, which I still can’t get used to. It was one of the top platforms to build relationships with journalists. That’s actually shifted quite a bit. We’ve seen that now more on LinkedIn by tagging them in articles that they’ve written and us putting our own perspective on their article, they respond. You just don’t see that as much on Twitter now. So, you have that.
And then Facebook, if you don’t have a page already built, you’re paying top dollar for it. And your personal account needs to stay your personal account. We don’t really manage that for people. Leave it for family and friends, and that’s the value that that provides other than being an advertising tool.
And then there’s Instagram and sometimes, that makes sense, especially if you’re a speaker or looking for more of that video side. But if you’re looking to engage, have this thought leadership, have this expertise, drive business growth and credential yourself, LinkedIn is going to be the best tool for that.
Darren:
And LinkedIn excels for business-to-business communication. I mean, I think the Instagram and Facebook are still quite good for business to consumer, but that B2B area really, LinkedIn has it stitched up, doesn’t it?
Nichole:
It does, but we’ve actually seen it shift a little bit to B2C too. It really has become a platform for both.
And I think what we see a lot of times is if someone’s trying to vet a brand, they go to the executive on LinkedIn, they see what they’re talking about, they look at their content, they look at their expertise and it’s kind of like, “Do I trust this based off of who’s in charge and who’s leading it, and what are they saying and what are their values?”
So, that’s where we’re at now. It’s all about trust and people are not trusting of brands anymore. So, how are we shifting that? And that’s really our approach to shift that mindset.
Darren:
So, I was one of the first million people to sign up for LinkedIn globally, and they send me a reminder of that every so often. But the interesting thing that I’ve seen over time is a real shift on LinkedIn from what used to be a very business-focused interaction to more of the social aspect of work coming into it.
And what I mean by that, to bring it into the real world as they say, is that LinkedIn in the early days was like you were in a meeting room or a boardroom. Now, there’s a lot more that it’s like the water cooler or having a coffee with colleagues, in that the conversations have genuinely become more personal and less business focused.
Some people call it LinkedIn becoming more like Facebook, but I’m just interested in your thoughts on that because the algorithm seems to encourage more of that personal and social sharing rather than just business sharing.
Nichole:
Yeah, it definitely has changed. When LinkedIn started, it was so much about finding a job, posting about a job, job this, job that or updates there.
There is much more of a personal advancement that’s there. You see more about people’s families; you see more about traveling and sharing about real issues going on, and I don’t think it’s gone as far as Facebook. I think you’re not going to see your aunt posting about something that you really didn’t want to see on there.
But I think the biggest thing is, it still has a professional undertone to it and has a little bit more formal on LinkedIn versus Facebook is definitely more casual. But yeah, it definitely has changed over time, and you can definitely see that shift of people posting a little bit more of their personal lives.
Darren:
Well, look, as an expert, I want to just put to you a few scenarios that I’m still not sure about, okay. One of them is, this increased behavior of people on LinkedIn sharing their children’s achievements, often with photos of their children, which I know there’s a big question mark with all social media about putting your children on social media. What do you think about that?
They’ve just graduated or they’ve achieved something at school or in sport, and there’ll be a photo and clearly, a proud parent being very genuine. And I think in an office situation, you might probably do it with your colleagues, but LinkedIn’s global.
Nichole:
Yeah, it brings up a couple of good points. One is, how often should we be sharing children on social media? That’s a big topic, and we probably could do a whole hour-long podcast just on that issue alone. I don’t see this as frequently on my side. It could be just that my network is just not sharing their kids or they’re sharing that on other platforms. I see it a lot on Instagram, obviously.
Yeah, I think it’s finding the right balance, you don’t want to lose the professionalism. So, you want to find the right balance. If your kid has a wonderful achievement, something they’ve been working towards, that you’ve been working with them on, whatever it may be, like graduations, like those are big things, that I can see. And I see a lot of the graduation stuff around that time of year.
But some of the other stuff, it’s finding the right thing. You don’t want to lose your message, you don’t want to lose what your goals are, like why you’re there in the first place. And when you approach any kind of content, whether it’s your kids, your family, travel, does it overall move your mission forward? Like why you’re there in the first place?
Is it aligning with your goals? Is it aligning with your values? And if yes, then okay, do it. But asking yourselves these questions before you post when you’re using this platform to maybe drive lead gen or biz dev or whatever it is, it’s always a good filter to get, especially if you’re, again, an executive of a company.
Darren:
Okay, the next one is also interesting because I’m seeing increasingly people very open about sharing illnesses, particularly long-term chronic illnesses, various types of cancer, and also, mental illnesses and the struggles that people have individually.
And you have to say it’s a positive thing because it helps demystify and helps normalize the fact that your colleagues and friends are going through this. I’m just wondering, is there any suggestion or guidance that you’d have on those ones?
Nichole:
Yeah, I think it’s the context. What are you tying it back to? And this could go for the kids’ content as well. People were so scared for so long to talk about mental health in the workplace and illnesses, these are real things of life.
And I think it’s an interesting thing to see when people are balancing both and dealing with both, and their perspective and approach on that and that type of positioning. I haven’t seen a post like this personally, but I’ve seen someone I’m connected with on LinkedIn, they had breast cancer and they talked about their journey through that and how it impacted work, and where they’re at in their career now, and I think that is very meaningful. I think that’s very impactful content. I think that’s something that is going to resonate with someone and I know it’s helped people.
So, that approach, like if you’re coming with it, of education and helping people, I think that’s so meaningful. I think that’s providing so much value and I’d like to see that a lot of these conversations are more open and that people aren’t as scared to talk about real life. That’s happening.
And especially because it impacts work. When you’re sick or something’s going on, you still have to work. And so, I’m glad to see that people talk through those issues now.
Darren:
Now, the third one that is interesting because we both work in marketing and media and advertising, which some people would say is the most awarded industry.
We seem to have more awards and more recognition for our achievements, but this I call the humble brag. It’s the post that goes, “I’m so honored and humbled to be selected.” When you know full well that they were clearly entered in that competition. So, what do you think of the humble brag?
Nichole:
So, it’s funny because I would probably challenge the fact that only people in marketing probably in PR, like probably are the only ones who know that you apply for some of those. We know that for sure and there are definitely … I think we’re creating a lot of great awards for ourselves, honestly, I’m very excited for us on that.
But a lot of it is credentialing. And so, for customers, it’s really great to see that. Like for a customer to get on and be like, “Oh, I saw that you won this award,” it immediately builds trust. Like it works. We’ve seen it time and time again. Even if you paid to submit for the contest, at the end of the day you still have to win, because everyone has to pay to get in.
But I think looking at it as … again, it all comes with approach. Like how are you messaging it? How does it sound? Does it sound like you? But it does drive a lot of that credentialing and authority by association. Just having that logo and being like, “Hey, I won this award.” Customers love it and it really does work.
So, this industry’s charging, they’re making a killing off of it too. I know what it costs for some of these.
Darren:
Nichole, because I think it’s the wording, you just said then, “I won this award.” Like acknowledging that you’ve been selected or winning I think is good.
It’s the, “I’m so humble that I’ve won this award,” or “It’s such an honor to win this award.” There’re words that just wreak of inauthenticity, of a lack of being genuine about it because you most likely knew you were in the running for it — if it came out of the blue, sure.
But to your point earlier, we are looking for genuine connection, but I absolutely get the point because the awards are also third-party endorsement, aren’t they?
Nichole:
Yeah, they are. The moment you’ve put that logo on your website or in your email signature and you share it on social, it takes off.
We see it time and time again, be some of the biggest things from people congratulating, like, “Oh, I saw you won this. Hey, we need to set up a lunch and have a meeting to talk about how we can work together.” I mean, the ripple effect of those, they do work.
So, I see it. I see what you’re talking about sometimes and yeah, you got to find the right tone.
Darren:
Is there anything you see on LinkedIn that makes you cringe? Are there any particular posts that make you feel uncomfortable or you just want to reach out to the person and go, “Look, I know a little bit more about this than you may, here’s some advice.”
Nichole:
This is a good question. I think it’s when someone’s overly salesy, like just really, really, really salesy. Because I don’t think people resonate with that now. No one wants to be sold at all the time, and why a lot of old selling strategies just don’t work anymore. And that’s why we love LinkedIn for biz dev because it’s more organic and more natural and conversational.
But yeah, it’s the really salesy stuff. Like that just doesn’t resonate with me at all and something that I don’t see as going as far on LinkedIn.
Darren:
And the other thing that would balance that out beautifully is actually participation, wouldn’t it? Because it’s not just about you sharing your thoughts through posts, but actually following people and contributing, not just, “Hey, that’s a great idea.” But actually, put some thought into deepening that conversation or that thread to give another perspective.
Nichole:
It’s the number one thing that is missed time and time again, is people post and leave and never do anything else. It’s such a missed opportunity. You have to spend time engaging like a normal human. Liking is great, commenting is better, sharing is wonderful.
So, how do you engage with … maybe you have a target list of connections, like, “I’d love to do business with them, I’d love to have a business relationship with them or maybe have them in my book one day.” Whatever it is, have a couple of contexts on LinkedIn that you’re looking at consistently and find ways to naturally engage with them, like a normal person.
But I see it all the time, people post, they leave, they never engage, they never respond back to people that are commenting, which is a huge miss because the more you interact and the more engagement on your posts, the further it goes.
So, I think people are so scared to comment and like and just be active on LinkedIn. We see it on Facebook, we see it on Instagram, but LinkedIn, I do see that hang up sometimes, and it’s a missed opportunity.
Darren:
Because some of the best threads then will have multiple perspectives, even some that counter to what’s been shared in the first place. And as long as it’s done in a respectful and professional business-like manner, I think people appreciate that there are different perspectives that it doesn’t have to all be about the cheer squad, does it? You don’t have to be the supporter for everyone.
Nichole:
Absolutely. Sometimes I love when someone posts a differing opinion where they share an article that’s like, “I read this article, here’s my point of view, and I don’t agree with these points.” And it’s not to say that the article is bad or whatever it is, but it’s just having a different point of view, that is okay.
And having these organic conversations in the comments sometimes, so much meaningful conversations happen there, and reading through them, you can see that, especially if anyone uses the LinkedIn news tool.
There’s so many great trending conversations there and comments and posts, it’s just taking the active approach of commenting, engaging, having a conversation. One, you’re going to enjoy LinkedIn more, but it’s going to really drive your own thought leadership forward.
Darren:
Now, all of this personal brand building, you have to think of in a longer term, don’t you? This is not advertising where you run an ad and hopefully, get results or do some performance-based page search. What would you say to someone starting out to build their personal brand? What sort of timeline should they be looking at?
Nichole:
Consistency is important, so if you do it for a couple of weeks and then you don’t come back to it for a month and then you do it for a little bit and you don’t come back to it for two months, it’s going to take a very long time.
But if you start to get into a routine of building it and coming in with the right message and goals, it’s about six months to a year before we really do start to see results and impact. And some people are like, “That’s too long.” And I’m like, “It’s just the reality of it.” Because the thing that people also forget is that LinkedIn is a great SEO tool. Google loves it for some reason.
So, what we see a lot is the more active people are on it and utilizing things like LinkedIn newsletters and posting, and if you’re doing PR and getting these earned media and sharing it, those things populate more when someone searches your name, and owning your name on Google is by far the most important thing you can do, if someone searches you and you own that search.
So, LinkedIn plays a really big role in that. And so, building consistency, and if you do it, and consistently over time, you can start to see stuff in six months to a year.
Darren:
Yeah, it’s interesting that people think that’s too long because in actual fact, you need to play that long game.
Nichole:
It’s kind of like when someone says, “I need a website, can you get it up in the next three weeks?” And I don’t build websites, but I do know the reality of them. And it’s like, “No, we can’t do that. It’s not possible.” And it takes some education.
Darren:
Look, thank you for making the time to chat with us, it’s been a great conversation around personal branding.
Nichole:
I appreciate it. This has been wonderful. Thanks for having me.
Darren:
So, I just have a question before we go, and that is, where do you see your personal brand? What’s the positioning of Nichole Williamson Davidson in the LinkedIn market space?