Christopher Melotti is the Creative Director, Message Marketer and Marketing Consultant at Melotti Media and the Message Marketing Bureau. Often considered by some in advertising as the poor relation of B2C, B2B marketing has undergone a significant transformation with an increased focus on building strong brand relationships that support sales and create the platform for business growth.
Chris is uniquely placed to share his views on B2B marketing. He has worked in advertising agencies and successfully led marketing in several B2B businesses, and he has now founded and created his own marketing and media company specialising in B2B marketing growth.
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It’s still the same thing. You’re still talking to a human. You’re still talking to a bunch of humans who are still emotional, irrational. And despite all that, all the protective B2B cocoon around them, they still have human drives.
Transcription:
Darren:
Hi, I am Darren Woolley, founder and CEO of TrinityP3 marketing management consultancy. And welcome to Managing Marketing, a weekly podcast where we discuss the issues and opportunities facing marketing, media, and advertising with industry thought leaders and practitioners.
If you’re enjoying the Managing Marketing Podcast, please either like, review, or share this episode to help spread the words and wisdom from our guest each week.
This week, we’re discussing B2B marketing. Often considered by some in advertising as the poor relation of B2C, B2B marketing is undergone a significant transformation with an increased focus on building strong brand relationships that do not just support sales but create the platform for business growth.
My guest this week has worked in advertising agencies and successfully led marketing in a number of B2B businesses, and now, has founded and created his own marketing and media company specializing in B2B marketing growth.
Please welcome to the Managing Marketing Podcast, creative director, message marketer, and marketing consultant of Melotti Media and the message marketing bureau, Christopher Melotti.
Welcome, Chris.
Chris:
Thank you so much, Darren. That was quite a mouthful.
Darren:
No. Well, look it, from my perspective, and one of the reasons that I wanted to have this conversation is I think you are one of the few practitioners in the B2B and marketing space who has applied the very disciplines that they recommend to your own businesses, both to Melotti Media and to the Message Marketing Bureau.
And I think that’s really important because a lot of people talk about the shoemaker’s shoes or the builder’s renovation that never gets completed. But you are actually not only recommending and implementing strategies and techniques, but you are using them yourself.
Why is that so important to you?
Chris:
Evidence. That’s the best way you could’ve started this is because for me, I was totally against ever being a business that didn’t practice what we preach. Like for me, everything I do in marketing is coming from a genuine place. It’s my DNA.
And so, when I was looking at launching, and ever since I have launched, I said, “If I’m going to be selling thought leadership articles and writing those, I have to have my own. If I’m going to be selling great articulated messages, then my website needs to reflect that and so forth.”
Even my personal brand, you see me all on LinkedIn, I don’t do that for any other reason other than the fact that I want to show the power of marketing because how am I supposed to do it if I’m not demonstrating it? So, it’s one of my core principles, and it’s one that I teach my team as well.
Darren:
And it clearly works because when I talk to the businesses that are doing business with you, one of the things they say is what you see is what you get.
But that’s a good thing because there is no bait and switch. There’s no over promise, under deliver. The very fact that they’re attracted to your offering and your business …
And we must be clear, you’ve grown quite a big business. This is not just you as a sole operator. You’ve got quite a big team now behind you in both businesses, haven’t you?
Chris:
Yes, yes. And I pinch myself a lot. So, this is my seventh year, and I still just can’t believe how it has progressed. And it’s not because I’ve always had the strategy, used marketing principles and all of that, but it is a little bit of a pinch me moment.
Because and you look at it and you go, “What am I doing teaching the Australian Bureau of Statistics? Like what am I doing working with News Corp?”
And it’s a bit of that imposter syndrome, because you put all the pieces together, then when it works, you go, “Oh my gosh, look at where I am.” And like you just can’t help it.
Darren:
Well, what are you saying, Chris? That success just seemed to have crept up on you and you were surprised by it, or?
Chris:
Yeah, look, I do-
Darren:
I think you may have worked really hard as well.
Chris:
Oh, a hundred percent. The amount of hours and everything I do. But at the same time, there is nothing more rewarding for me, than seeing my own marketing work and seeing the marketing that I do for clients work.
Like honestly, that email that says, “Chris, the slide kit that you put together won us the job.” Honestly, that makes my week, my month, because I’m just like, “Yes.” And everything we do is about that. So, a hundred percent.
Darren:
Because it’s having a profound effect.
Chris:
Yes. Profound is the right word. Yeah, a hundred percent.
And like you said, people always go, “Chris, you are everywhere. You are everywhere.” That’s not by accident. I don’t just go, “Oh, I just spray and pay.” I look at it and I go, “Where do I want to be seen and how do I want to be seen?” And it’s all of that. And then we do it.
Darren:
Now, your business is probably fairly built around B2B marketing-
Chris:
Definitely, a hundred percent.
Darren:
… rather than B2C. And do you think my opening comment about … for a long time, I worked in agencies that were very B2C focused. And B2B was like, “Oh, well, that’s off in the direct marketing area.” Or that’s sort of somehow lesser than B2B.
Chris:
Yes. And yes, I agree. I still get told by some agencies, they go, “Oh, you work in B2B, we do B2C because it’s more fun.”
And it’s funny because I have never even thought about it that way. Like I used to teach at universities, marketing, and I used to come in and do bits and pieces, and even to those classes, I always said to them, “B2C, B2B, doesn’t matter. You’re still talking to a person.”
And yes, the message differs, and the kind of process works differently, but you’ve got to remember that it’s still the same thing. You’re still talking to a human. You’re still talking to a bunch of humans who are still emotional, irrational. And despite all that, all the protective B2B cocoon around them, they still have human drives.
Like, oh, sorry. I was going to say that when you’re talking to people and you are talking to that marketing manager who is like, “Chris, pitch to me.” I know that they don’t want me to pitch to them. They want me to make them look good to their boss.
And there’s a humanistic vulnerability in that, that is B2B that is fun. Because you get to talk with and help people grow in their career and get the kudos they deserve.
Darren:
It’s interesting because a lot of agencies, to your point, will say to me, “Oh, we do B2B.” And then when you ask them about, “Well, what have you done?” It’s usually sort of a secondary adjunct to some big B2C campaign.
It’s like, “Well, we launched this product and here’s the trade work we did to sell it into the retailers.”
Chris:
Yeah, good point.
Darren:
And I think that a lot of it’s driven by the fact that it was seen as the same strategy, to your point, but different. In that with B2C, people believe they’re influencing the end decision maker.
Whereas in B2B, you’re often going to have a whole silo of decision makers or influencers. And that it’s much more complex in actually knowing where you’re landing.
Because I love the point you made before about you pitching not to solve their problem, but to make them look good to their boss.
Chris:
Yeah, yeah. And there’s a lot of complexity in there and like I never … even when I launched this business, it naturally was B2B. It’s not like I set off and said, “Oh, I’m going to be B2C.” Like it was just attracted a lot of the B2B.
And I think it’s probably from my background, which was very CMO, executive in those industries. But at the same time, I’ve always found this enjoyable.
And I think there’s a bit of a misconception here because people often think B2B means you are sitting your lonesome on this table with 17 board members looking down at you going, “What do you want?”
That’s usually not the case. Usually what it is, is you get a marketing manager or some sort of procurement manager that needs your assistance and goes, “How can I launch my tactics? How can I put my brand into action?” And usually, that’s the person you’re talking with.
And occasionally you’ll get some background people, but usually it’s not as intimidating as a lot of people think. B2B is very quite accessible, especially in middle market and middle market Australia especially, is you’re getting people that …
Like I recently I worked with a big cleaning company that was turning over millions. But it was still run by a family, and they were so overwhelmed that they just went, “Chris, just get in here, make it better, and just do it.”
And so, yes, B2B, but they were very like, “You are the professional here, you just do it and we’ll be happy.” And that’s exactly what happened.
So, I’ve never shied away from B2B because I think it’s an enjoyable area.
Darren:
I think the other thing that puts people off is the perception that it’s all sales support. It’s doing sales, brochures, and sales forms, and organizing events for the sales team to woo clients.
Chris:
Oh no, not anymore.
Darren:
Much more about the sort of promotional arm. And I noticed in your CV in your LinkedIn profile, you actually worked leading marketing on quite a significant sized real estate network.
Chris:
Yes, yes.
Darren:
Now, real estate, most people would say, is all about sales. And yet, that’s not your experience, is it?
Chris:
No, no. So, the story is, I was working, the job before I was head of marketing at Sonic Healthcare. So, it was a big medical business.
And this real estate agency called Devine Real Estate, who has now changed their name. They headhunted me and they said, “You’ve got all the right skills. We want you to bring something fresh.”
And so, power to Steven Devine who owned it. He headhunted me because like every other agency, he had the marketing assistant. The marketing assistant, like you said, it was the whole 20 sales agents. And then there was that poor marketing assistant that put up photos online. That was it.
He brought me in and said, “Chris, I want you to …” It was quite visionary now that I think about it because this was back, what, 2015? And he was like, “I want you to come in and implement things. I want you to implement all the marketing.” Because he didn’t understand it, but he was like, “Tell me all this marketing stuff.”
And exactly what you said, I turned it on its head because instead of sales leading and marketing supporting, I actually turned it from marketing leading with sales supporting. And I didn’t even realize until it happened.
Like, for example, I built the brand I put all the brand guidelines that they had never had in place. We put colors and messaging together and then we rolled it all out. We updated the website and we started making it customer centric. Not we are selling coming front. Product’s such an ask.
Darren:
Well, because usually real estate is product centric. It’s about getting the property and then working out how to flog it. Rather than customer centric, which is who’s in the market and how do we fulfill their needs.
Chris:
And I was one of the first agencies in Australia to switch that from a website that went, “Here’s our properties buy.” I changed it to the divine difference. And the reason why it was such a hard sell for the internally because I wanted to remove all the listings.
Because I said, “Real estate and domain, that’s where people are going. They’re not coming to our website for our properties. That was a side. What they were coming to was due diligence.” And it took me forever to convince the heads ponchos there that I was right. And we did it and it worked.
Because they realized that people went to domain in real estate, they went, “Oh, Devine.” Then they came to our website and went, “Oh, wow. What a great culture. What a great group of people.”
And so, I made it about the energy, the brand, the team, and the support and all the benefits. And now, that’s standard practice in real estate. And I won an award from the Australian Marketing-
Darren:
I was going to say. So, Australian Marketing Institute, was it?
Chris:
Yeah. Australian market. So, AMI. I remember I won against Telstra. I won against Qantas. I was named CMO of the year, I think it was 2017 for the best of my recollection. And I was named that.
And the reason why is because they said, “You demonstrated …” Because AMI is all about endorsing the marketing profession, as you know.
And they said that I changed the way that marketing was seen in the real estate industry for the better. And they said, “Because of that, you started a movement in that space that shifted the way that marketing was seen.”
And as a result, you were our best ambassador for that industry. So, they awarded us. And I remember I was floored.
Darren:
That’s fantastic. That’s great.
Chris:
I remember, I couldn’t believe that, like as I said, I was up against some big — Qantas, all the big heavy hitters. But they said that I shifted things.
And it was everything. Like, again, I know everyone’s probably thinking this is standard stuff now, but back then, in 2015, I implemented software that had iPads and automation. And the agents were baffled. They were like, “No, no, no, no. We use paper.”
And I remember going, “Guys, you’re selling $7 million properties. You cannot be going with paper. We need phones that sync to a CRM.”
And then I remember I did, little on me, I was training these agents on how to put in contacts that then what happened was the person would go to one open house and then they’d go to the next open house and the details were order populated.
I just remember the agents would not conform. And until (I’m talking six months in) one day, one of them went, “I had my whole afternoon free because all the data was automated.” And I was like, “There we go.” And they were like, “Chris is actually onto something.”
Darren:
So, it is interesting because I think salespeople and marketing people always have a different perspective on the same objective.
Chris:
That’s a good way of putting it. Yeah.
Darren:
Because sales the objective has to be to grow the business and build a profitable, sustainable long-term success. Marketers talk about building the platform that attracts the customer. Salespeople talk about increasing the volume of transactions.
And so, while they’re both working to the same objective, they are quite different ways of getting there, aren’t they?
Chris:
Oh, big time. And actually the story I have was when I was at a pharmaceutical company earlier on in my career. So, when I got out straight out of uni, I think it was like 2007, I graduated from marketing, one of my first jobs was the marketing and sales assistant at a pharma company.
And the best demonstration of that was I was wedged in the middle of marketing and sales. And coming out of university, I was baffled with the fact that they didn’t talk.
I was so baffled because the sales team would have some opinion and would want something, and the marketing team would want something. And it never felt aligned. And I couldn’t see it.
So, for me, I used to bring the sales opinion in, I used to bring the marketing team in. And that actually set me up for the mentality I have today, which is I see marketing and sales as the same thing. They should be completely aligned.
And to prove it, many of my campaigns were actually delivered where the sales and marketing team were in the same room and we pitched it to them together. And they both had buy-in.
And you know what the funny thing is, the minute that people feel heard is the minute they collaborate. And there was some winning campaigns out of that because the sales team went, “This is what I found is …”
The minute that I brought them in, the sales team were proud of the materials that they were using. And the marketing team felt ownership of it. And so, what happened was it went from sales team going, “Oh God, what are those guys at the ivory tower doing now?” It suddenly went to, “This is my campaign, I’m happy to sell it.”
Darren:
Do you think there’s also a big thing that salespeople being so close to customers see the differences in the customer. And so, trying to fulfill those nuance differences. Whereas a marketing approach is much more looking for the commonalities of a larger group of people.
Chris:
Oh, big time. And I think the weakness is on both sides. Marketing’s weakness, is we don’t listen to the sales team who have the ear to the ground. But the sales weakness is they’re too impulsive. So, they will go, “I’ve heard this, change this. I’ve heard this, change this.”
So, the ideal business today in the B2B space is one that collaborates and balances out those two negatives. And you can.
So, marketing, listen more to sales, so therefore sales feel heard and marketing get the direct firsthand response. But then marketing can temper sales as, “Oh, I want this now.” And if you find that synergy is when you get the best results because they’re working together.
Darren:
And you said that now looking back on what you were doing with Devine Real Estate, sounds like it’s common-
Chris:
Today.
Darren:
Today, but back then was quite innovative.
Is that, because the other big trend that we keep hearing is that brand in B2B has emerged as such a strong and important platform.
Chris:
I have seen it evolve over the last 10 years. It went from brand was a nice to have to today, brand is essential. And you can understand why. It’s more and more competitive, the environment changes so fast.
So, what I’m seeing is that think about the individual person, whether it’s B2B or B2C, they are bombarded now. If you pick up your phone and you look at how many apps are trying to send you things at once, like there’s Facebook, X, LinkedIn, all those platforms are screaming at you all the time and you have them all in your hand.
So, what I’ve found is people today, their brains are desperate to grab onto something familiar and trusted. And that is where brand has the most power.
B2C figured it out. Like think about like people choose Coke over Pepsi, despite Pepsi being the preferred taste. Think about Nike. All the B2C commonalities are, they know that people choose brands that they love and trust and can feel relatability.
B2B is just getting there where we are going — when we choose software now B2B, we go, “Which software … oh, I’ve heard of Xero. So, I choose Xero because it feels more modern.”
Darren:
Well, it taps into our natural cognitive laziness. We don’t want to think about it too hard. So, if there’s some …
But how do you explain then the rise of spamming, like the number of B2B businesses? And I’m sure you get it too. Whether it’s on LinkedIn or email or whatever that are just offering a generic, “We’ll make you number one on Google, we’ll get you 50 leads a month.”
And yet you’ve got no idea who they are. There is no relationship, there’s no trust. Why do they think that this works? Is this just a sales technique?
Chris:
No. You know what? Unfortunately, because of AI, it’s only going to get worse. And the reason why is because it’s too easy. It’s too tempting. See, I’ll explain the cycle, and I’m sure you know this.
But with AI, it’s easy to go ChatGPT, whatever, Google Bud, “Write me a LinkedIn message that will target this particular audience to tell them that I’ll help them.” And then it spits out something generic, the person doesn’t know any better and they spit it out to every contact they’ve got.
And I think what we are getting is a generation of lazier marketers because it’s so easy to do that. And I don’t blame them. That you go to a portal and you go write this for me. Then they get onto another piece of software that can spam it out and says we can deliver it to 20,000.
And I think what is happening is with that being pushed, we get that resistance. So, if you think about the B2B human at the other side is we are going, “Oh my God, this is the 17th message I’ve got about being the first ranked person.” So, that we go, “Ignore, ignore.” I report spam, report spam all the time.
And I think what’s happening is marketing is getting lazier into that whole, let’s automate everything and hope for the best because it’s a numbers game. But at the same time, our customers, and our consumers now, clients are going, “I’m sick of being treated like a number,” and resist.
And so, what I’m seeing is that we are on this, there’s like this twisting that’s going on where we’ve got more and more marketers are using that and more and more people are resisting.
Darren:
So, I would say that they’re not marketers, they’re sales people. Because the marketer would be trying to build a perception, build a relationship, build a brand, build some trust. Not just hit them with leads. I’m trying to generate a lead here. Why aren’t you responding?
Because and a very wise old direct marketing when we used to have direct marketing, said to me, “They’re always amazed when someone says that I’m getting a 0.1% response rate to my EDM campaign. Do you realize that means 999 people out of a 1,000 actively rejecting you and your brand?” Because if they’re not responding, they’re rejecting you.
Chris:
But you know what the problem is? I’m hearing this narrative where it doesn’t matter, Chris.
Darren:
Why?
Chris:
Because see, this is the thing. I brought on consultants who had this attitude and they said, “It doesn’t matter, Chris, it’s an engine. It doesn’t matter.” So, like as long as that engine’s running, if you …
It’s too hard of a pill for me to swallow. Where they say, “If we send it out to 10,000 and you get three leads and those three leads work, you’ve won. Who cares?”
For me, though, I fought back and I said, “Well, reputation is my …” So, what I found is I compromised and said, “I’ll get the list, then I’ll curate it personally and then I’m going to message them on LinkedIn with voice message.”
So, what I said was, “I’ll still contact them, but I’m not going to send them an automated.” I’m going to say, “Hi there, Darren. My name is Chris. I’ve seen you around the marketing traps for many, many a year. It’s been a long time. I’d love to discuss.” That voice message converts probably 80, 90% of the time. Whereas the SMSs, all that spam-
Darren:
The emails.
Chris:
… it doesn’t go anywhere. And this is why I do podcasts. This is why I do events because in today, B2B is still human to human. A hundred percent. Like it works.
I said this to my team yesterday, “As much as we love all of our automation, it’s me going out there, it’s my other team going out there. The phone call within half an hour of an inquiry.” All of that personalization in a world of AI. It’s interesting paradox, isn’t it?
Darren:
Now, one of the things that you do is build brand guidelines or frameworks. And I thought that was really clever because particularly and I think you mentioned it before, salespeople like to change things.
They may say to customize the offering to a particular prospect. They may want to change it because they’re just bored with doing the same thing over and over again. They may want to change it because they don’t think it’s working because one person didn’t like it. Some research of one has put them off the whole idea.
So, it is inclined, and we see this anyway in lots of businesses, constant change. It seems to me that building someone a brand framework would be incredibly valuable.
So, first of all, what is the power? And how do you get people to buy into it?
Chris:
Yep. So, the biggest killer of a brand is inconsistency. I even sometimes say, I’m as bold as to say to my clients, “If you are bored with your marketing, you’ve won.” Because I say, “It’s not about you, it doesn’t matter what you feel.”
Is if you think about what’s happening in the market, your customers see you 1% of their life, if that. With that 1%, when they happen to interact with your brand, if they see you three times and it’s three different things, you’ve lost them. People don’t remember you.
Whereas, like I know this is the big brands. Bunnings, lowest prices are just the beginning, is drilled into us in ads, radio, visually, everything. We always see that. So, as a result, we know Bunnings, we know the jingle, we know everything.
That comes from consistency. Do you not think that the marketers in Bunnings go, “God, if I hear that jingle one more time.” I’m sure it’s playing in your head. Is it playing in your head?
Darren:
Yeah, yeah.
Chris:
It’s playing in my head. And I think those marketers in that company are probably thinking, “God, I would kill for another color.” But they can’t because the people that are there targeting, they know the sound. They know everything. They know what Bunnings represent.
To answer your question is the power of consistency, I would say consistency and clarity. If you are not proud of what your brand is saying and you cannot articulate in a way that everyone has a uniformity, then you need to build your brand core messaging guidelines.
Because if your sales team is saying something different to your customer service team, to your ads, to your this and that and the other, and you’re using all these differences, how do you expect these poor people to remember your brand? They won’t.
Darren:
Because you’re expecting them to put it all together and then memorize it. Yeah.
Chris:
And they don’t. They owe you nothing. So, people will gravitate to the brand that stands for something. Think about of all the brands that you recognize, and I know we’re going B2C, but we’re trying to talk about … but I’m saying B2C because people recognize it.
Apple, it always stands for the same thing in everything they do. Is always that. So, people immediately, when they see a slight of the logo or a bit of their website, Apple.
And so, with B2B brands, you have to think the same. You use the same color, the same messaging, the same tone of voice, the same personality. The power.
Darren:
Yeah. Well, the big thing that they’ve been talking about in the last year or so, for B2C, is that often marketers will even change executions because they argue a burnout.
Yet all of the research is showing that by the time they’re changing the execution, the consumer’s only just starting to become aware. The marketers are getting bouncy.
Chris:
Are getting antsy. Yes.
Darren:
And then they want something new.
Chris:
And it’s not about us. It’s not about us.
Darren:
This idea of a new big ad every year is now, starting to look like it’s one ad every two years or three years.
Chris:
And that’s the thing. So, consistency and clarity must be … so, the first half of your question is, what is it? Consistency and clarity. Be bored of your marketing. And that’s the power.
So, how I do it is I get in with the team and I get everyone to talk me through it. And I build and articulate their messaging from their knowledge, their customer’s knowledge and all of that. So, they’ve got a brand guidelines that they can sell with, they can put all over their website and use it.
Darren:
Now, there’s something in there that really delights me and surprises me.
Chris:
Delights you? Yeah, go for it.
Darren:
No, no. And I say that because a lot of people talk about brand guidelines, but they’re actually talking about things like logo types, and colors, and fonts and things like that.
You are talking about the actual messaging. The words that are said, and the way that they’re said, and what they convey.
Chris:
Yes. So, I’ll give you some background how I got here. So, I started off as a copywriting agency, pure copywriting.
And in Australia, back when I started, no one had a marketing background as a copywriter. Those people were in agencies. No one was a freelance marketing copywriter. All of the freelancers were all like stay-at-home moms and all these sort of things.
So, as a result of my marketing background, where I was working with clients who they went, “Oh my God, you get the concept, you get the practice.” I stole the market. I ended up taking that whole market because they were like, “Chris is in a league of his own.”
Now, I’ve grown and grown and grown and what I did was people at first were hiring me for my copywriting.
Then now, over time, they’ve actually hiring me for my consulting. And I’m talking message consulting. Because the writing is just a nice bonus. They want me to help them bring their messaging together.
So, to get back to your question was, people now, when they think brand guidelines, it’s always logo, color, all of that. I’ve added the other lesser known cousin, which is I call the brand messaging guidelines.
And that is where, like you said, that’s where I built the business into. And that’s our signature move is now, the copywriting is all the execution later. People want me for the big brand messaging. And I’ve done it for News Corp, but I’ve done it for finance and legal. I’ve done it for all different industries.
And everyone needs that because they bring me in, you know what they say? They say, “We’ve got a Frankenstein going on in here.” And they’re saying, “If you ask five people in this building, everyone will say its different things. We need you to unify it.”
Darren:
It’s interesting because earlier on you were talking about mid-level and I call them, they’re usually large, private companies. And then there’s the very large companies. The larger the organization, the greater the fragmentation, and dissonance, and complexity.
And it’s interesting because this, your messaging guidelines, is one of the areas that could actually link sales, marketing, HR, and corporate comms together.
Because often you see it in very large organizations depending where they are, they have a totally different vocabulary. They often talk in different ways, they frame things differently.
Chris:
Oh, and there’s a loss.
Darren:
And so, consumers don’t just listen to marketing. They’re also taking call centers, sales people. If you get that consistency, that’d be incredibly powerful.
Chris:
Oh. And I’ve done it for like I’ve worked with O’Brien Glass, and I’ve done this for a lot of big tech firms. And yes, you’re right. Because what I do is I often do the brand call messaging, and then what they will get me to do is then add the sales messaging to that. So, I actually put it together for the sales team.
And then they’ll actually even sometimes say, I call it the corporate core messaging, which is where I do their internal comms. And it all stems from that same thing of the language, pulling it together and giving it some life.
But the other thing is the secret source is that they all have buy-in. It’s not me just coming in and going, “I’m some sort of pro that knows what to do. Here it is.”
I sit down with them. And that’s the key. You sit down with them, and you talk them through that and you say, “What have we …”
I call it therapy sometimes. I’ve been in rooms where there’s four directors who, they don’t hate each other, but they work in silos. And it didn’t even occur to them that they needed a single message.
And sometimes I had to say, “Rob, you’ve had your say now. Julie, what’s your take on this?” And it’s that whole collaboration circle that finally gets it to a point.
And sometimes, you know what it is, that first draft is the first time they’ve ever seen any of their branding before ever.
And sometimes that can spark incredibly binding, unifying exercises because suddenly they’ll go, “I love that. And this can do here and that can do that.” And suddenly you get all these messages on a Google doc and they’re like, “We’ve had an epiphany.”
Darren:
It is weird, isn’t it? Because you would just think that this happens. But I guess it’s because they don’t actually dedicate the time. I mean, I’ve run cross-functional workshops.
Chris:
Yeah, I bet you have.
Darren:
Sorry, cross-functional, including agencies, particularly when someone’s appointed a new agency to integrate them into the business.
And people will come in and they’ll be introducing themselves to each other as if they’re meeting the agency. And they’ll suddenly go, “Oh my God, you work for the company too.”
Chris:
Like you’re in a different department.
Darren:
“How long have you been with the company?” “Oh, five years.” “And why haven’t we ever met?” That’s how big some of these organizations.
Chris:
Oh, I’ve been to those offices.
Darren:
Or how siloed they are, that they don’t actually encourage that cross-functional collaboration.
Chris:
A hundred percent. I’ve been into some of the offices of a lot of these big organizations, which I won’t name, and I’ve walked around, like I’ve been working with the marketing team and I’m like, “Oh, let’s go for a bit of a walk over there.” And they’ll go, “We don’t even know what department’s over there.” Like hand on heart, that’s what they’ve said.
Or I’ll be like, “Oh, this is level two. What’s on level three?” And they’ll all look at each other and go, “Is that licensing? Who’s up there?” They don’t mix and they don’t gel.
And so, when I’ve been doing some of these core messaging, I’ve actually found that it’s eased a lot of tension because corporate affairs will come in and say their piece, and marketing will say their piece, and sales will say, and customer service.
And because I’m an external person, I can take the brunt of their frustrations and we can find a middle ground. And that’s helped a lot.
Darren:
And also, distill the frustration out of it and get to the core of what they’re trying to-
Chris:
Of what they’re doing and what they’re saying.
Darren:
And what they want to communicate.
Chris:
Yep. And it’s surprising how different-
Darren:
It is therapy, isn’t it?
Chris:
It really is.
Darren:
Corporate therapy.
Chris:
And I love it because my personality is very caring, nurturing, empathetic. Like I’m huge in that space. So, for me, it’s like this perfect blend of marketing and writing expertise together with my nurturing nature.
Like if I was this full like aggressive alpha male, I don’t think it would work because people would go, “He never listens. Like we’re trying to tell him our messaging. He’s not caring and he’s saying, ‘You have to do this.’” And then they’d get annoyed.
Whereas, because I sort of wax on, wax off kind of feel, they feel heard, but still led. And that’s the difference.
Darren:
What I like about it as well is that it puts the concept of brand management with marketing, but the ownership of brand with the organization. Because in many ways, it’s not taking brand off marketing because brand actually exists across the organization. And you having those sessions-
Chris:
Magic words.
Darren:
… of getting people’s input and listening to them and distilling that, then gives marketing a very clear idea of what they’re dealing with. It’s almost like an audit.
Chris:
It is. That’s what I actually call it a lot of the times. You said the magic words there. We need everyone to realize today that brand is not just marketing. You said it exactly. I’m very passionate about this.
I’ve done talks on brand and people have called and they’ve said, “Chris, what aspect of brand are you talking about?” I’m like, “Oh, just brand in general.” And they’ll go, “But do you mean do you mean like logo?” I’m like, “No, no, no. Your brand.” And they couldn’t get their heads around it.
Today, corporations of all sizes need to know that a brand is everything. When you call and you speak to the customer service team and they go, “What do you want?” That’s brand damage. That has nothing to do with marketing, it’s the customer service team.
Little things like terms and conditions. If it says, “You’ve got seven days to return something.” And they hide that and then the person has a bad experience because they go, “Oh, I didn’t realize it was expiring in seven days.” Bad marketing, bad branding. Nothing to do with marketing. They didn’t do that.
And so, operations is brand, sales is brand, website is brand. Your phone system is brand, your CRM strength is brand. Everything now is brand. And remember, your customer doesn’t know the difference.
Like you look in Sydney and you see the Salesforce building. Nothing to do with marketing. It’s a big sign on, but people go, “Wow, Salesforce must be smashing it.”
Darren:
I’ve suddenly realized in what you’ve said then why B2B has really emerged around this idea of brand. Because when you think about B2C, we traditionally think of products. And so, the brand is built on the products-
Chris:
The Coca-Cola bottle.
Darren:
Yeah. The experience of it, the look of it, the style. But it’s less to do about the company. When you’re dealing in B2B, most of what they’re selling is the services delivered by the company, creates the brand perception.
And so, being able to first of all, articulate that and then consistently and positively reinforce it is where the power comes.
Chris:
Yeah. I did some consulting for a client a few weeks ago and they said … and I agree with you because the consistency piece, he goes, “I’ve always got all this great expertise to share, but everyone keeps scrolling by my LinkedIn.”
And I said, “Do you know what the difference is? I put my orange banners right behind me and they know, ‘Oh, that’s the orange guy. That’s Chris.’ Sometimes they don’t even listen to what I’ve said, but they see me and they go …”
So, I said, “Find a background that has your brand on it and use it. And people will go, ‘Oh, that’s the guy that talks about the stats. The green guy, what was his name?’ And suddenly you are educating, you’re educating.” It’s that consistency.
And the point I’m making here is, like you said with B2B, think about the colors that you use, the way that you connect, the way that your experience is on the website, the way that your materials feel.
Like when you present to a board and you give them a document and it feels nice and crisp, that’s your brand. As you said, people are buying everything about your brand and they choose irrationally sometimes because they’ll go, “This lawyer has nice stationary.” Like they must know their stuff.
It’s that physical evidence, everything that is brand. And so, that’s why you’re right. B2B has really embraced that strength of brand. And so, they should.
Darren:
Yeah, absolutely. Because it builds that relation, builds the trust, opens the door, becomes the platform for attracting clients, but also converting them and building loyalty from them.
Chris:
Yeah, a hundred percent. And I love this stuff. And the way that I put the brand messaging in place, not many people … see this is what you get in a brand guidelines. Usually you get we are fun, we are clever, we are smart.
Whereas to me, I get into the writing. Like I’ll say, “This is what you put on your homepage.” It’ll be something like be dominant, find your space in the market, and destroy that niche or whatever it is. That’s the hero statement.
Then it’ll be the explanation statement, the core messaging underneath that, how you say about us. All of that needs smart, clever, consistent crafting. And if you do that successfully across all your socials and all of that, it does a good — like that’s where the brand power comes from.
Darren:
That’s so valuable. Invaluable, Chris. But unfortunately-
Chris:
Oh, no. We’ve talked about-
Darren:
We’ve run out of time. Yeah. It must be incredibly gratifying though to be invited into a business and given so much access. Because I imagine that’s what it takes to get this right.
Chris:
Oh, it definitely. And it’s an honor and I treat it that way. I don’t just go, “Well, of course, I’m here.” Like every time I get that major client, I’m like, “Look at where I am.” It is an honor.
Darren:
Well, Chris Melotti, thank you for taking the time and talking with us today on Managing Marketing.
Chris:
Actually, it is my honor to be here because I’ve known you for a long time. Well, I’ve seen you around for a long time. So, it’s an honor to be interviewed by you.
Darren:
So, a question for you before you go. And that is of all of the B2B brands that we currently see, which is the one that you think has the most opportunity for growth?