Jeremy Taylor, Managing Director, TrinityP3 UK, and host Gina Larter, Business Director, TrinityP3 UK, recently attended the AdForum Consultant Summit in New York City. This is an annual opportunity for the pitch consultants from around the world to meet with the agencies (global, regional and local) and hear the plans they have for the coming year. Jeremy and Gina sit down to discuss the emerging trends and innovations they saw and heard and share their insights into the state of the agency market and the evolving client/agency relationship.
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That is the big change-maker that is now changing the digital agencies, digitally-led agencies, and the new generation of them that’s out there are now becoming networks, they’re not just little hot shops, and they are capable of doing the whole thing.
Transcription:
Gina:
Welcome to Managing Marketing, a weekly podcast where we discuss the issues and opportunities facing marketing, media, and advertising with industry thought leaders and practitioners.
Today, I’m sitting down with Jeremy Taylor, Managing Director of TrinityP3 UK. Jeremy has a long and successful track record in managing marketing communications agencies, as well as being responsible for developing radical and effective communication strategies for his clients in many different markets.
Jeremy, you wear two hats, primarily Managing Director of TrinityP3 UK. Still, also, you’re Co-Founder and CEO of CONNECT2 Community Engagement which helps clients engage their businesses with society by meeting community needs.
You address trust issues and build sustainable growth at the meeting points of marketing and corporate communications. And in addition to all of that, you’re a charity trustee and marketing specialist in your own local community. And just to add another thing in, knowing you well, I know you have a real passion for tennis.
Jeremy:
Yep, thank you Gina, great to be here. Nice to be talking to you and thank you for all that. And yes, tennis is where it all comes together.
Gina:
Good, excellent. So, today, we’re going to discuss some of the key issues facing our industry, which came out as a direct result of a recent trip to New York with AdForum; welcome, Jeremy.
So, before we get started, I’m just going to … for the benefit of our listeners who aren’t necessarily familiar with AdForum, I will explain a little bit about who they are and what they do.
So, AdForum provides advertising agencies and production companies with a digital space to showcase their creative work and talents to brands and prospective new business partners. They have more than 25,000 members in their agency gallery and represent the collective voice of the advertising industry.
This includes a creative library featuring more than impressive 200,000 campaigns, partnerships with leading award shows, and influence globally with offices in New York and Paris.
So, Jeremy, our listeners will be very interested to hear from someone with your background and experience about your take on the emerging issues and trends. Would you like to explain a bit more about your trip and what you were looking to get out of it?
Jeremy:
Yeah, it was a big old week in New York, so five days in New York, touring around here and there in Manhattan. And we took in, I think, 18 different presentations in the course of those four days or five days. And for me, the interesting thing is obviously, to hear how the agencies talk about themselves, but the bigger picture piece was what was really interesting.
So, what were the themes that were coming across and that now being my … I can’t remember the third or fourth experience of attending AdForum. It’s interesting to see how things have moved on in the previous year or six months since I last was exposed to them.
So, I think the interesting bit to discuss today is probably not so much the individual agency presentations as the overriding themes and developments that were coming out of it.
Gina:
No, that sounds interesting; I’m sure our listeners would welcome your opinion and thoughts on that.
Jeremy:
Okay, so I’ve got a kind of mental list. In fact, I’ve got a written list as well of what I thought was the interesting themes. So, let’s kick off with the big topic at the moment, artificial intelligence, AI.
Lots of discussion about that amongst the various agencies, some very specific guidance from some of them, expert guidance coming through, particularly on ChatGPT. So, what really struck me was that most agencies don’t really know any more than anyone else does, what the implications of ChatGPT are going to be.
Gina:
Do you think that’s challenging for them with their clients often going to them for advice on this particular topic?
Jeremy:
I do, and I think agencies feel it’s their business station. They need to know about these things, they need to have an understanding of ChatGPT in particular and have a view on how it works for them. It’s pretty apparent to me that not many of them really know the full picture. But then again, who does, because the thing is developing so quickly and growing so fast, and the implications are immense.
So, what a lot of them have done, which is what everyone’s done, is to go and play with ChatGPT. And it’s so easy to get into the detail of it, and rather than trying to take a big-picture overview of what it’s doing, you rapidly get involved in the marvels of what it can do for you.
So, you ask your questions, and it comes back and tells you the key points from your CV or key points from your agency’s site.
Gina:
And what were the main uses from the agencies? How were they using it? What were the benefits for them, these initial ways of using it?
Jeremy:
So, once they got beyond that stage of it, it’s apparent that it has some good uses. And some of it is to do with putting together media schedules very rapidly, which seems to be able to help them very quickly, which I can say is a big benefit. It can do some of the things that take people an awful long time to do, it can do really quickly, so it gets them to a solution quicker.
Once people start playing with the creative aspects of it, so it’s ability to create images and its ability to create PowerPoint. It’s clearly got a role in helping to — what’s the phrase? Ideate. And in particular, people seem to be using it to put together … what’s the word? So, cases, helping them present themselves more quickly and finding …
Gina:
This is excellent because case studies are often that sort of thing that agencies can take a while to put together, so taking some labour out of that.
Jeremy:
Yeah, exactly and putting together images and backup, and I think they will also finally use this to do that when it comes to making first-stage creative presentations, so images to support the ideas.
So, things that would previously have taken days, if not weeks to put together because you’ve got to put a brief together for your creative development, it’s got to come back, or you’re searching endlessly online for suitable images, it can do that very quickly.
So, these are the kind of areas where agencies are I think, finding it useful right now. The impression you get, there was a lot more going on, but people hadn’t really worked out what it is that … or if they had what was done, they weren’t willing to tell you what it could really do for you.
But I think this is something which is — so my overall conclusion, my overall observation really is that as of yet, we don’t really know what it’s going to be doing, but we have great hopes as to … all the agencies have big ambitions now it’s going to be helping them out. And I think the next few months are going to be very important, very pivotal in the way it ends up being used.
Gina:
Were there concerns … I’m sorry, go ahead?
Jeremy:
No, no, I just think clients are looking to them for guidance without question. And I think the big question within clients’ minds is going to be, how does this cut costs? All the big stories are about how it’s going to be doing jobs that take people a long time to do very quickly.
Therefore, isn’t there a cost implication? So, the challenge rises, is to say probably is the big one is going to be, it’s not about labor saving, it’s about doing things better.
Gina:
Yes, okay, now that’s really interesting. And was there any concern in the agencies about how this might take jobs away or from certain departments? Or was there any sort of concern expressed about that area?
Jeremy:
I didn’t hear any, no, I didn’t really hear that coming through. It was more about doing the job better, and I think that’s healthy. But maybe there’s a little bit of head in the sand about whether that is an implication of the technology.
And I don’t yet think people know. There are clearly some industries where it’s going to have a huge impact on jobs. Didn’t really hear any big conclusions as to how it’s going to affect employment prospects within ad agencies.
Gina:
And who, having seen obviously a good cross-section of these different sorts of agencies, did you feel was really leading the way or what type of agency?
Jeremy:
Well, I think it fits more naturally into the more digitally-led agencies just because they have that heritage. But I wouldn’t say it’s exclusive to them. I think they gave a more convincing account of how it’s helping them to work but it’s certainly not exclusive to them, it’s something that touches everybody.
Gina:
And was Web3 mentioned at all in the presentations that you saw?
Jeremy:
It was, Web 3.0. Now, that is definitely something which is the digital agency world when they’re leading the way.
So, the state of Web 3, people are obsessed with finding out what it can do. So, my observation was that what we saw was some very technical presentations about Web 3.0 putting together programs using it, which struck me as being more about showing off what the technology can do rather than being particularly customer-focused on it.
So, there were kind of lots of programs we saw where people are doing things because they could rather than because they should. So, it worried me that there wasn’t really very much consideration for what the punters actually wanted to see out of it. Maybe that’s because a lot of it is being aimed at a very young market.
It’s being seen as a way to get into the Gen Z which of course, a lot of marketers obsess over. And I guess that’s probably going to be where it does its proving, that’s where it’s going to be demonstrated.
But right now, I think there’s still a way to go in harnessing the tech, the IT opportunity, the technology opportunity that’s provided by Web3. I think early days are not yet really thought through, I mean, lots of talk about the … sorry, Gina, the name’s gone, but the chain technology that they use …
Gina:
The Bitcoin or …?
Jeremy:
Yeah, the technology the Bitcoin uses is obviously what drives all this, and it’s complicated, it’s complex stuff. And I think there’s some development works to do before it becomes something which is universally used across the agencies.
Gina:
And what would you say, if you had to sum things up, what would you say was really new in the agency world? What struck you when you were over there?
Jeremy:
Well, those two are the big two things. I’ll tell you one thing that did strike me was that 12 months ago, most of the conversations about the technology side of marketing were about the Metaverse. Now, notably, no one mentioned the metaverse.
So, it’s kind of been tried and found wanting was my feeling about the metaverse. And it’s been replaced by Web3 and AI. But I think the big one is going to be AI because the implications are so huge. So, how that comes together over the next six months, 12 months is going to be really interesting. But I think it’s going to be fast because technology is developing so fast.
Gina:
Yes, absolutely.
Jeremy:
So, Metaverse is interesting by its absence rather than by its presence.
Gina:
Yes, interesting, I guess what’s particularly sort of topical. So, is there anything else you would say that was particularly topical when you were out there that all the agencies were talking about?
Jeremy:
Well, there is still some of the same stuff that we’ve seen for the last five years. So, the big triangle of data and creative and production, I think all the agencies still felt that it’s important for them to talk about that, and provide their own take on how those three things are done and the systems that drive it and how they’re brought together across networks.
So, there’s still a big focus on those three areas, quite rightly because I guess is the way in which they produce the work with their clients. So, I guess the way the agents should think about these, the new technologies, is how they can do those three things better. I’m not sure that’s new, that’s a continuation of a theme that’s been around for four or five years now.
Gina:
Was there any particular focus or any commentary and discussion about pitching in the process?
Jeremy:
There’s silence.
Gina:
Okay, I’ll go into another one. Now, this is going to be a really cheeky one actually, which is all clients have differing needs, but if there were three agencies or three agency networks that you would put on your own pitch list, what would they be and why?
Jeremy:
Well, there’s a question with many sub-questions.
Gina:
Yes.
Jeremy:
What would I put on my pitch list? So, it clearly depends on the client requirement, but Gina, you have to … part of that question pass me again, it had too many parts.
Gina:
Okay, I’ll go on it. So, all clients have differing needs, but if there were three agencies you were putting onto your list, if you’re a client, then which agencies would they be and why?
Jeremy:
I’m not going to be specific about particular agencies because I really think the client need is so specific and I don’t have a client need.
Gina:
Okay, I’ll skip that one. Did you see any specialist agencies and who were they and would you like to say something about them?
Jeremy:
We did see some specialist agencies, and I think the big thing for me was the kind of division between the digitally-led agencies and the more digital agencies that were being rather really referred to as legacy networks these days. And I think the most interesting trend for me was the rise in confidence and abilities of the agencies who are from the new generation of digitally-led ones.
So, they have notably risen to the point where they are confident talking about themselves as being the lead agency, they have the ability to lead completely everything.
So, whereas a couple of years ago, they would be slightly in the background, technology boards who understood how digital world works and they’ll be there to support the activities of — maybe to carry out the digital elements of what was going on with the bigger ideas coming out of the more traditional agencies.
That is the big change-maker, that is now changing the digital agencies, digitally-led agencies, and the new generation of them that’s out there are now becoming networks, they’re not just little hot shops, and they are capable of doing the whole thing.
So, they’re quite capable of producing the big campaign ideas and all the work that supports it right through from … so all the production work across all the different media. And they’re not now thinking that they need to be in the shadow or big agencies if indeed they ever did.
But they see themselves as being quite capable of being the lead agencies in any client relationship. That to me was the big shift that I saw in New York.
Gina:
Okay, and you talked a little bit on this, but what do you feel hadn’t particularly changed from the presentations that you saw within the agency world?
Jeremy:
Well, interesting question. So, what hadn’t changed was still the big emphasis on the trinity of data and creativity and production.
So, that has been a big theme of agencies for the last four or five years now. I think still, they like to talk about how they bring together, how they use data to drive creativity, and how they use IT to make sure that the production side of things is done efficiently and timely and cost-effectively.
And that theme is still there very strongly, although what does change is how technology and IT enables the production side of things to happen quickly and efficiently. And I forgot what your question was now, what was the lead into that, I should write it down.
Gina:
I think that was going back to what hadn’t changed.
Jeremy:
So, those three; so data, creativity and production is the thing that doesn’t change. But what does change is how technology and IT, in particular, makes those three things come together and then build a beneficial spiral that should increase the way it works.
Gina:
Excellent, and like all these things in the industry, you talked about some of the themes that had changed, some of the themes that hadn’t changed; were there any particular buzzwords that came out in New York when you were there?
Jeremy:
There were. So, we heard an awful lot about the points of inflection. And the point of inflection was used in a variety of ways, but I guess the way the point of inflection was used primarily was about the journey of the brand.
So, a lot of agencies liked what they came across as they would like to work with brands that had been around for a while, had reached a certain stage and then had reached a point where they had to reconsider how they grew beyond that kind of initial stage of growth and excitement and what happens next.
So, the point of inflection was something we heard quite a bit about, and I suppose that’s what they’re looking for when clients are coming to them. Where are you in your journey as a brand and what’s changing now where we can do something different? So, this was a new terminology that we heard quite a bit about.
Gina:
And is there anything talking about hearing about things, and was there anything you were expecting to hear more about that you didn’t?
Jeremy:
Interesting question.
Gina:
You talked briefly about the metaverse, didn’t you? That had been talked about a lot previously last year.
Jeremy:
Yeah, that is an interesting point; that’s a good point. The metaverse was not referred to, and the metaverse was talked in a great deal about in the previous round of these presentations that I attended.
Interestingly, it was not talked about, so maybe the conclusion was that they couldn’t make the metaverse work for them, and they couldn’t see … the implication is that the metaverse is not something that agencies feel they can harness to their client needs.
Gina:
And what about as I understand it, diversity last year was a very central theme in all the different discussions and presentations. What would you say was at the heart of AdForum 2023?
Jeremy:
Yes, an interesting discussion point. So, diversity was something that was incredibly top of mind 12 months ago. Everyone really keen to make sure that their teams were representing, or the diversity of their client markets and all views represented not talked about so much this time around.
Although I’m sure that within the organizations, there are still people responsible for diversity on driving the diversity agenda, was not something which was top of the list this time around.
So, either that’s because they feel they’ve done it or because it’s reached a certain point of development and now it’s let’s not talk about it, now let’s see what the impact is in a year’s time, I hope that’s what it was, because it was such a hot topic 12 months ago. But it was strangely absent from the agenda this time around. So, things that were not mentioned particularly.
Gina:
Was there anything that replaced it, would you say, if you’re looking at the continuity between all the presentations you saw?
Jeremy:
What replaced it? I think, well, AI was a big one.
Gina:
Yeah, okay.
Jeremy:
And why not? It’s an incredible opportunity that they can seize it. But there’s a lot of work to do, a lot of thinking and exploration to do before AI can be turned into the big opportunity, that it’s there for the agencies to take.
Gina:
And one of the things is the agency is always great at obviously helping their clients hone their propositions, but sometimes, aren’t so good at their own. You would’ve seen, as you said, I think it was 18 different presentations. Is there any particular advice you would give those agencies about how they might approach improving or sharpening up their credentials?
Jeremy:
Gina, that’s a big question, how can they improve …
Gina:
Sorry, maybe I can do a simpler one. What advice would you give the agencies regarding their credentials?
Jeremy:
So, agencies are always convinced that they have to cover off certain bases. And definitely, there’s a lot of received wisdom as to how you should present yourself and talk about yourself in certain ways, and there is some truth in that.
I mean, obviously, people do like to hear that you’ve got a track record and they like to see the main people and they like to hear about how you think about things. But what they really like to see is the evidence of it. So, I think a lot of agencies could do better by using evidence of how they are doing things better and how they’re doing things differently, and that’s really about the work they’re doing.
Agencies love to talk about themselves, and they spend an awful lot of time still in setting up the conversation, talking about their history and how they do this and how they do that, and how many systems they got. And the evidence is really going to come through the work that they do. So, it’s the proof point of how they do things and how things are different within the agency.
Gina:
And what would you say were the strongest ways of actually expressing that? Obviously, results have been used in some ways, but were there some good new ways that people used in their credentials to help other clients understand that they could deliver upon their promises?
Jeremy:
Well, yeah, so results is always interesting, isn’t it, because it’s always a bit commercially sensitive to explain to people what you’ve set out to achieve with your case histories, with the work you do for clients. So, it’s a bit superficial the way it’s set up.
Sorry, Gina, can you ask the question one more time?
Gina:
Okay, we’ve talked about the case studies and actually, the clients and marketing directors and things giving testimonials, I was trying to lead you into that one. So, in terms of the credentials that you saw, were there particularly good ways that the agencies put across how they had performed?
Jeremy:
Yeah, I mean, there are certain things you can’t get away from. You got to show the work, and you got to show — sometimes I think people could spend more time talking about the thinking behind the work and the opportunity that was there to be exploited because there’s a big tendency from agencies still to blast you, every different little bit of creative variation there was on the theme and here it is on this format, here’s it on that format.
Sometimes the more interesting thing they forget about is the thinking behind it and how they got there, and then the bigger impact they’ve achieved.
Gina:
Yeah, I think that’s a really good point.
Jeremy:
So, sometimes, you could do is less of the thousand different treatments that were there, the theme and more about the kind of the big thinking behind it and the bigger impact it achieved and how it changed the audience’s view on things, and sometimes it’s nice if you can do it to hear a bit about that bigger picture.
Gina:
And were there any really surprising ways that people put across credentials? I know Darren spoke it before about just bringing a client in to speak about an agency. Was there anything particularly different from these 18 different presentations that you saw that stood out?
Jeremy:
Well, yes, and I think your point about bringing clients in to talk about the agency is particularly powerful. There were a couple of cases where the work was good, you didn’t think oh my God, that works, it’s astonishing.
But what did happen was what is impressive is when a client talks on behalf of his agency and talks about the strength of the relationship and the impact of the work from their point of view, and there were a couple of occasions where we saw agencies do that. And it’s actually deeply impressive because clients will not likely talk about the agency relationship and the importance of the work being done.
So, if they are willing to do it, really strongly, it can be done. Nice to obviously back it up and talk about the science behind it and the way it’s done. But ultimately, if clients are endorsing the work, then …
Gina:
Absolutely, a bit like sort of novel and the reviews on the back can be very convincing, can’t they … you want to buy it.
Jeremy:
But the proof comes when you start reading the novel, that’s the case with the agency.
Gina:
I guess it’s also in many RFPs, isn’t it, that they want to call clients. So, to be able to have it upfront and recorded and be able to show it up at the beginning stages of discussions must be quite convincing as you say.
Jeremy:
Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, I mean, clients endorsing their agencies is a tough thing to do, but very impactful when it’s done.
Gina:
And I think we talked a bit, but there were a couple of — who were the specialist agencies you saw? I think there were some that were quite different to all the other agencies. Who were they and did you want to talk a little bit about them or mention them, what topics they were covering?
Jeremy:
Give me a clue on that, sorry.
Gina:
That’s System1.
Jeremy:
So, one of the nice things about AdForum is that they’ll often introduce us to companies who are not agencies, that are doing other services which are useful. So, that was interesting to meet people who are specialists in insights research.
So, yeah, we met an interesting presentation from System1 are an insights research company and hear how they can help with the production of really effective creative work and the way they go about doing it and the systems that are there. So, yeah, sometimes it’s interesting to hear from the services that are behind the agencies and the kind of creative production element that you expect to hear about.
Gina:
Because it seems to be becoming more and more utilized, the sort of a whole behavioural economics in communications, and there’s Mad//Fest as well, which I know you’ve attended.
Jeremy:
Yeah, I think you’re really better to talk about that than I am. That’s been there, I know you’ve been deeply involved in.
Gina:
So, Jeremy, you’ve, as you said, you’ve got your long list of things that came out so clearly. You were paying a lot of attention with all these different presentations despite the fact that it being in a very short space of time. Are there other things that you wanted to bring out that our listeners would be interested in?
Jeremy:
A couple of things I would. So, one which was kind of … which doesn’t seem to move, which is everyone’s very keen to talk about their data and their creative and their production agents and how all that combines.
From a client’s point of view, it’s interesting and reassuring to hear that those three things are going on. And people are not really finding new ways of talking about that, they’re saying, we do it.
So, for me, it’d be interesting if an agency would say, “Here’s how we do it, that’s really different, and here’s the evidence of how those three things combine to make the work effective,” so that’s the same old thing. I thought an interesting area for me was when we heard from people like Accenture on how they are bringing different skills to bear.
So, going beyond that kind of triangle of data creative and production, interesting to hear how people like Accenture are thinking about how they can actually expand the role of advertising for their clients. How they can make it a growth area rather than an easily understood group of skills that can be ever pressured into being cheaper?
So, I thought they had an interesting story talking about the extra services, the different things that the agency can produce, that can be impacted on by thinking more broadly. And that kind of management consultancy, creative agency crossover, was an interesting development that I enjoyed hearing about.
Gina:
Yeah, I think there was some interesting examples of that, as you say, in terms of when there is actual impact or creation of new things actually in a client’s business as a result of an idea. Were there any interesting things that came out or struck you as being interesting in that area?
Jeremy:
What’s in your mind? You must have seen some things as well?
Gina:
Well, when we were talking about Accenture Song or when we were talking about some of the other agencies where they actually had an impact, where they had created something that was then utilized in the business.
So, whether that was something like uncommon whereby they brought out a whole new line, which was of suites that they were helping people who just going into work. But Accenture also had an impact in creating something for the actual business itself more than just the advertising.
Jeremy:
Yeah, and those are good examples of what happens when you bring different thinking or skillset into the advertising world. And I think that’s one of the interesting things about someone like Accenture, who can bring in teams and people with different skill sets that can grow and impact beyond the advertising and can lead to maybe different thinking about a product or a service and what lies behind it and how it can impact on the audience.
Gina:
And with it, obviously, it’s AdForum and so there will have been a big emphasis on advertising, but did you see other things? You’ve talked about data, were there some good case studies or again, some interesting insights there where you could really see that data was now beginning to be utilized in some of the other disciplines that hadn’t been there before?
Jeremy:
Have you got some examples in your mind?
Gina:
Well, I guess for some of the digital agencies, you were saying that you had that triangle and there was data and creative and strategy. I was just wondering whether the data side comes across in particular examples. Because previously, it’s been more associated with creative and advertising, whereas data’s often been looked at more the traditional below-the-line agencies.
Jeremy:
Yeah, I guess that’s true. Certainly, digital agencies and digital networks are less intimidated by data. They endorse it and they use it in more impactful ways I think, than the older agencies have tended to do. They’re not worried, they’re not intimidated by it, they’re not scared by it, they see the opportunities it provides for them. So, yeah, that’s an impact of the rise of digital networks.
And certainly, I think what came across very strongly to me was the rise of some of the digitally-led networks who are talking very confidently now about the bigger impact they can have on client businesses.
They’re not seeing themselves as being there to support the big idea, what they call them legacy networks, an interesting phrase in its own right. But they’re not seeing themselves as support anymore, they are quite capable of doing everything.
We were hearing about some very aggressive expansion from those digital groups and huge confidence in their abilities to be the lead, in fact to do everything. Not just there to run one aspect of their client advertising needs. They can do the lot and they’re very confident about it and they’re very aggressive in the way they’re approaching it.
So, I think that was a really interesting outtake from the week, particularly the rise in confidence that I heard from the digital networks. And the kind of way in which they’re aggressively expanding and the way they’re taking business away from the old networks, which sounded to me less confident in their abilities.
There was a definite diminishing in the way that they talk about themselves or the confidence in which they talk about themselves.
Gina:
Was there a mention about working from home? How’s that working? Because in agencies it’s often either with pitches or with brainstorming that often you need people together. Was there a discussion about video conferencing and working from home?
Jeremy:
There was, in fact, almost a universal agreement about working from home, which seems to have become the accepted way of working. In that now, we have people expecting to spend three days a week in their offices and two days a week working from home.
And I guess that the impact of that is that the things which require people to work together in groups are going to happen on the days they’re in the office, on the days when they’re doing more admin things are going to happen when they’re at home.
But yeah, it’s a big change in the last three years and I think it’s becoming a permanent change. It’s not going to change back again; people like to work that way and they’re adapted to working that way. So, we are becoming used to empty offices on Monday and Friday and busy offices on the other three days of the week.
Gina:
So, that was consistent, wasn’t it, regarding the days of the week? Was that what the agencies were saying?
Jeremy:
It was but there’s a challenge now right there. Because what are you going to do with your offices the other two days of the week? Some of the agency groups are coming up with interesting solutions where they have different divisions working different days of the week. So, there are desk sharing opportunities because you’re accepting that three people are only going to be in the office three days a week. Therefore, they’re looking for optimal use of the desk space.
But I still see an awful lot going into an agency on a Friday or a Monday, and they’re being not a soul there. So, there’s an issue right there for all the agencies I think to tackle on how they maximize the return on the office space, which is a big part of their cost.
I know that they’re looking to find ways of reducing that cost as people work more and more from home and as they adapt to the permanent impacts of what that does to them.
Gina:
That’s brilliant. Well, Jeremy, thank you so much for coming into the studio today and sharing your thoughts with our listeners about AdForum because I’m sure a lot of them are interested in the type of insights that you brought out of that, so thank you very much.
Jeremy:
Thank you.
Gina:
Goodbye, Jeremy.
Jeremy:
Bye-bye.